Consciousness and Dreams

We must allways remember that we tend to put a human twist on everything including the animals in the studies. To collect the data is one thing.
How it is viewed and what it actually means is a whole other messy ball game. This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 03-02-2006 03:24 PM

Listen I understand your logic, it's fine that you feel that way.Really it was an awesome feeling. I did have mixed feelings about it, and did ask myself why I felt it happened.On one hand, I was impressed by what happened, but on the other hand I felt like there could have been more, if I was only a little less sinful, or a little more seeking of God. It did show me, and others what can be possible through God. I am slightly disappointed in my own self that I do not seek more, and get visions like that. But I wish to use those visions to help people, and glorify God at the same time, otherwise it doesn't have any real meaning, it would just be selfishness. I wish I could have a vision that would help you, and you could come to know the Lord a little better.I don't know, besides post-hoc reasoning, what do you think it could mean? Assuming I am not crazy.I do understand post-hoc, and I could easily do that with many things in my life, especially with 9/11. Some crazy things happen leading up to that event, including pictures of the NYC skyline missing the Twin Towers, and me being parked in front of the Twin Towers exactly one week before, explaining to some tourists how to get a nice persepective picture of the building. I told them to take a lot of pictures, and they said why, then I said because you never know.
I could post the pictures that I took in March 2001 of the skyline. But I did not think that was God showing me something, I think it was all coincidences, coupled with a fear I always had of those buildings coming down. That and the previous attack ten years prior. Some where though there is a foreigner saying OMG, that guy in front of the buildings, lol. It was all before I had the relationship with the Lord like I do know. My responses then would parellel yours now.

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I don't know, besides post-hoc reasoning, what do you think it could mean? Assuming I am not crazy.

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It was probably a coincidence.

So let's over the vision again, so I can understand your line of reasoning. I hope you looked at the link to the video I provided.I was praying to God. I saw something very similar (almost exact) to what was in that video of the wave propagating all over the world. The thoughts came into my head, that what ever it was I was seeing was going to affect the whole world, and it was not going to be a terrorist attack. It was also going to happen before our next meeting, 2 months.That was 4 distinct things that came to me in the vision, all of which came true.I am not an expert on figuring out possibilities, but right off the bat, the possibility of an event happening as significant as that, and affecting the whole world, are pretty outragous. Couple that with the time frame in which it was predicted. Tie that in with the fact that it was not a terrorists attack, and it was infact a wave, that went over the entire earth.Assuming I am telling the truth, and I have witnesses.I bet that the odds of this happening are over 1,000,000 to one. Yet you say it was "PROBABLY" a coincidence?I don't think so.However, I will be fair, and of scientific thought when I say that there was a slight possibility that it was a coincidence, but probably not. Scientifically speaking of course. In my heart I feel it was God.I wish someone here would calculate the odds.I really can not understand why you would say probably a coincidence. I mean your supposed to be more in the know than me about logic, and science, and this is the theory you deducted?It is statements like that, that make me question your ability to logically and scientifically look at things. I feel it was more of your personal beliefs interfering with a truely scientific answer.
(no-true-scientist) That brings up a good point also.

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I was praying to God. I saw something very similar (almost exact) to what was in that video of the wave propagating all over the world.

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How can you be sure?You said it was only for "a second", it was weeks and weeks after, you said that you didn't give it a whole lot of thought at the time, and you also said that it took you four days to realize that it was the same event.It is very, very easy to shape your memory after the fact. It is likely that you have altered it to more closely match what you saw on the TV and you have now convinced yourself that it was and "almost exact" match.I've done this myself; completely fabricated details of events that I was trying to remember. I saw them vividly, realistically, but that I later realized were completely wrong when I saw a photograph or video tape or something of the real event.

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The thoughts came into my head, that what ever it was I was seeing was going to affect the whole world, and it was not going to be a terrorist attack. It was also going to happen before our next meeting, 2 months.

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I've already explained that this is relatively vague.

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That was 4 distinct things that came to me in the vision, all of which came true.

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Not really that distinct.

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I am not an expert on figuring out possibilities,

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Yes, you are. All of us humans are. That's how our brains evolved to think; we are constantly trying to fit things into categories, find meaning in events, find the why, the reasons behind things that happen.We did not evolve to be logical, nor to look for disconfirming evidence.That is what you are not doing, riverrat. You are not looking for disconfirming evidence that would count against your story being true. In addition, you are discounting or ignoring any disconfirming evidence that is brought forth.You are demonstrating a textbook case of confirmation bias.

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but right off the bat, the possibility of an event happening as significant as that, and affecting the whole world, are pretty outragous.

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1) All earthquakes affect the whole world from a physical standpoint, riverrat. ALL of them. ALL of them change the shape of the earth.2) You have not demonstrated that every single person in the world even heard about the event, let alone was affected by it.

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Couple that with the time frame in which it was predicted

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Tie that in with the fact that it was not a terrorists attack, and it was infact a wave, that went over the entire earth.

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I'll agree that this matches your vision. But you have not shown it to be anything other than coincidence.

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Assuming I am telling the truth, and I have witnesses.

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I believe you when you say that you had the thoughts and that you told people.

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I bet that the odds of this happening are over 1,000,000 to one. Yet you say it was "PROBABLY" a coincidence?

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I don't think so.

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Like I said, why aren't you looking for disconfirming evidence?Why are you ignoring or downplaying the disconfirming evidence that is presented to you?

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However, I will be fair, and of scientific thought when I say that there was a slight possibility that it was a coincidence, but probably not. Scientifically speaking of course. In my heart I feel it was God.

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...and we have our answer to the questions I pose above.

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I wish someone here would calculate the odds.

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There is no way to calculate the odds, because most of your claims cannot be quantified in several lifetimes.

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I really can not understand why you would say probably a coincidence. I mean your supposed to be more in the know than me about logic, and science, and this is the theory you deducted?

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The reason I say this is because...You are not looking for disconfirming evidence that would count against your story being true. In addition, you are discounting or ignoring any disconfirming evidence that is brought forth.You are demonstrating a textbook case of confirmation bias.And again, which is more likely;1) That God sent a vision about an event in which hundreds of thousands of people would die to YOU, some guy in America who could do absolutely nothing about saving any of those lives, and he didn't even give you anywhere near enough detail to even attempt to warn anyone, or2) It was a fairly striking coincidence that has the dual benefit of stroking your ego?And, I will repeat my question to you from a previous message:

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The specifics of the event were not revealed to me, so I don't think that there was any saving of doomed lives to be had.

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If there were no specifics, how do you know this was the event in question and not just a coincidence?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-03-2006 07:53 AM

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I bet that the odds of this happening are over 1,000,000 to one. Yet you say it was "PROBABLY" a coincidence?

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I don't think so.

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By chance alone, by your estimated odds, six thousand people all around the world had the exact same thing happen to them regarding the tsunami.I wonder why more of you didn't speak up?

No, I am not. I am very open to another explanation of what happened to me, but so far you have not presented one. Most everything you have mentioned does not fit in, and can be discounted by examining the facts.
You like to mix what you feel with what is. Why, because you said so? You have to prove it, so far you have not. Yes, I already knew that. But there was a wave involved also, that increases the odds against it happening.There are over 500,000 earthquakes a year. But how many tsunamis are there? I said it would aaffect the whole world, not every person in it. I was not sure if this meant every person or just the whole world.I did express that at the time of the vision that I was not clear on what it meant. An extremely rare one, not a probable one like you mentioned. Thank you for believing me, it means something to me, that you said that, really, thank you. I am not. Should we start another thread on this? But we could come up with a minimun number at least. Maybe you should study a little about visions in the bible, and know that all things that happen are for His purposes.I will be honest and say that I do not fully understand why the vision was given to me, but like I said it demonstrated what could be had through God. If we had enough faith we could move a mountain. Maybe if I had a little more faith, I could have known what it was going to be, and maybe saved those people in the name of God. Maybe I let all those people down.Maybe you could have the vision also. I should not have said specifics. I should have said certain specifics were not revealed to me, in words.There were specifics, the ones I mentioned, which fit perfectly. Again the odds of all those things lining up are to great for it not to be true, for me.

No, not the odds of people getting the vision, the odds that all the events in my single vision could come true.Where do you get your logic sometimes?