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Author | Topic: Casualty of faith healing - Madeline Neumann | |||||||||||||||||||
teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Um, has anyone noticed that the couple have 2 more children and that they reportedly said "We didn't have enough faith"? They also said "we are remaining strong for our children" and "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."
I'm kinda scared for the other 2 kids in that household.
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teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Last I checked, which was yesterday, 44 out of 50 states have such a statute.
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teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes
quote:Are you implying that minors should be able to drive, drink, smoke, have sex, etc.? quote:I don't think this is a fair argument from your side. As far as I can see, noone is making the argument that she had the specific right to the insulin... specifically. People are saying that she had the right to a proven-to-work treatment available, and if that treatment is insulin shot then it's insulin shot she should have gotten. quote:But we have already established that children don't have the right to make that kind of decision for themselves. This is why parents are able to make the decision for them. In other sectors, we have also established that if the parents are unable to fulfill the needs of the children then the next people in line to make the decision are the social workers. Unless, of course, you are advocating that social workers have no right to take children away from abusive households. quote:I think this is main part of the issue. Some people here are arguing that prayer ought not to be a legally legitimate method of treatment. quote:Abuse does not always involve active physical abuse. Negligence is a form of abuse. There is also a thing called negligent homicide. quote:I think this all boils down to where we draw the line between when we must act to save a person's life and when we call it a night. Some people here clearly see the line drawn a little beyond faith healing while others advocate the line being drawn before faith healing. quote:Technically, none of us can live without certain intervention of some sort to keep us alive.
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teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes
quote:I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this one. The issue is whether society as a whole should allow children to do these things or not. quote:Some children want to smoke, drive, drink, etc. We as a society have already established that children are not capable of making sound decisions on those things and therefore should not be allowed to make those decisions on their own. How is deciding to die any different? quote:First of all, I don't think we may ever know if not receiving proper treatment was this girl's first choice at all. Second, you are implying that faith healing is as effective as modern medicine and therefore should be held in the same light. With regard to the legal obligation part, that is exactly what some people are debating about, whether or not the law that shields these parents from legal accountability for this girl's death is constitutional or not.
quote:Are you arguing that one's reilgious freedom should supercede someone else's right to live? quote:You are making a strawman argument. Nobody is saying that we should force people from not relying on faith healing. What some people are arguing is that religious people ought not to have the right to force faith healing, which I think is pretty clear that it is an ineffective method of treatment, upon others, especially the youngest members of our society. quote:You are playing a game with semantics. People here have been using the word "right" to mean legal right.
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teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes
quote:I didn't say minors. I said children. Are you saying that 11 year-olds are allowed to drive, at least in some parts of the country? quote:Same question. quote:What? Again, you are playing the semantic game. Suppose I hold a rock over your head and let it drop on you. You could argue that I intentionally dropped, through my action, the rock onto your head. I could also argue that I simply brought the rock to a place that just happened to be above your head and then, through my inaction, allow the rock to fall back to Earth. Your semantic game is getting boring.
[quote]I wrote
quote:Well, yes you did. You are claiming that the parents' choice of prayer over modern medicine was a legitimate effort in trying to do the best for their daughter. If I didn't know better, I'd say you are comparing faith healing to modern medicine as if they are on equal grounds. quote:Again, we may never know what she really wanted, considering they isolated her from the rest of the world. Some people would call this brainwashing. I remember watching on the discovery channel a couple years back about this Christian cult that promoted sex with children as a way to recruit people. The leader of the cult was finally arrested and charged with child molestation and all of that. The most disturbing thing was some of the children (10-15 year-olds) "rescued" from this cult were so brainwashed that they insisted there was nothing wrong with having sex with adults to recruit them into the faith. Even after the cult leader was imprisoned, the remaining members of the cult continued to practice this underaged prostitution. They got around the law by moving to other countries like countries in South America and Africa. The point is I saw interviews with several of these really young children that couldn't wait to have sex with adults as a way to bring them closer to God. At some point we have to question whether these children ought to be able to make these decisions on their own, especially when we know for a fact that they were brainwashed into believing these things.
quote:Again, we may never know what this girl really wanted, since she was isolated from the outside world and was brainwashed by her parents. At some point, we really have to question whether these children can actually make sound decisions. quote:Then ask him what he meant. Edited by teen4christ, : No reason given.
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teen4christ Member (Idle past 5828 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes
quote:All children are minors. Not all minors are children. Semantic game... quote:Ok... quote:Try to think of what we've been talking about in regard to the little girl. Her parents never took her to a doctor since she was 3. They pulled her out of public school. They isolated her from the rest of the world. By doing all of these, they put her in danger of illnesses going undiagnosed. This is comparable to me holding a rock above your head. She became mortally ill. This is comparable to the rock slipping out of my hand. Her parents refused to let her have proper medical care. Instead, they relied on faith healing. This is comparable to me not warning you about the rock or push you out of the way and instead rely on God to help you. She died. This is comparable to the rock hitting your head. It was the parents that put her in the situation in the first place. And through their inaction, they allowed her to die slowly, over a month no less.
quote:I agree, and legally it was ok to put black people in chains and make them do forced labor. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is just. quote:Do you or do you not agree that it was brainwash? quote:What decision? The fact is we don't know what she really wanted and may never know since she had already been isolated from the world. In short, I don't think there's really not much else we can talk about.
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