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Author | Topic: What does everyone think about Nutrional Supplements? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Having once worked in a reputable Health Food Store, I am quite well read on the various assortment of nutritional supplements available for sale in this country. There is debate on the issue. Some say that supplements are clever snake oil marketing, and that they make for nothing more than expensive urine. Others tout the benefits of some of these substances, backed by research. While I would say by no means are all supplements necessary or effective, I would personally recommend a list of about ten for most people.
They are: 1) A good whole food multiple vitamin. 2) Coenzyme Q-10 (great for heart) 3) Grapeseed Extract or Green Tea Extract (effective antioxidants) 4) Alpha-Lipoic Acid- 5) Acetyl L-Carnitine 6) Bilberry 7) Fish Oil 8) Vitamin C- increase during times of colds or stress. 9) Saw Palmetto-good for older men 10) Milk Thistle-great for rebuilding liver Does anyone else have any comments or suggestions concerning these? (Coffee House, perhaps?)
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AdminSchraf Inactive Member |
Since the nutritional supplement industry is unregulated by the FDA, none of the manyfacturers have to provide any evidence that their products are effective for the stated purpose. There is also no government-imposed minimum standards regarding quality or concentrations.
That lack of research and study also means that interactions between supplements and other substances are largely unknown, as are the long-term effects of a given dosage, and if certain ethnic or age groups tend to have bad reactions. This doesn't mean that any of the substances available are not useful or helpful for something WRT human health, but we just don't know, and are not likely to find out anytime soon. Conducting studies is expensive, and you just might find out that the product you are testing doesn't actually do what people think it does. A lot of the supplement industry IS snake oil selling that can be dangerous at worst and a big waste of money at best. Don't get me started on homeopathy. I would first see a doctor to get some bloodwork done to see if you are deficient in any areas, and if it is determined that you are, then eat foods rich in those nutrients rather than synthetic pills. If you have a poor or limited diet, a daily multivitamin is probably a good idea. I have an excellent diet but my doctor just started me on Flintstones for the extra zinc and iron.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
I don't think you should discuss the issue here. I will prompt this so further discussion can ensue.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Sorry, I didn't realize that Phat's OP was in PNT!
Not yet fully awake this AM.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Schraff writes: Well, there are some natural supplement alternatives to coffee! Not yet fully awake this AM. Seriously, though...talking about one of the supplements on my list...Grape Seed extract. There have been some studies done.
In 1534, French explorer Jacques Cartier was leading an expedition up the Saint Lawrence river. Trapped by ice, Cartier and his crew was forced to survive on a ration of salted meat and biscuits. Cartier's crew began to exhibit signs and symptoms of scurvy-a severe deficiency of Vitamin C. At the time, the cause of scurvy was unknown. Fortunately for Cartier and the surviving members of his crew, they came across a Native American who told them to make tea from the bark and needles of pine trees. As a result, Cartier and his men survived. This supplement will soon be as common as one-a day or "flintstone" vitamins. More than 400 years later, Professor Jacques Masquelier of the University of Bordeaux, France, read the book Cartier wrote detailing his expedition. Intrigued by Cartier's story, Masquelier and others believed and concluded that pine bark must contain some Vitamin C as well as be a good source of bioflavonoids which can exert Vitamin C- like effects. Masquelier termed the active components of the pine bark "pycnogenols". This term was used to described an entire complex of proanthocyanidin complexes found in a variety of plants including pine bark, grape seed, lemon tree bark, peanuts, cranberries and citrus peels. The term "pycnogenols" is now considered obsolete in the scientific community to describe these compounds giving way to the terms proanthocyanidins, oligomeric proanthocyanidin complexes(OPCs) and procyanidolic oligomers(PCO). Masquelier patented the method of extracting PCOs from pine bark in France in 1951 and from grape seeds in 1970. The PCOs extract from grape seeds emerged as the preferred source based on extensive research between 1951 and 1971, as well as intensive research from 1972 to 1978. The intense research in the 1970's was conducted with the goal of gaining the approval as a medicinal agent by the French Equivalent of the FDA. Detailed analytical, toxicity, pharmacological and clinical studies were performed on the PCOs derived from grape seeds. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-20-2005 10:32 AM
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Call me old-fashioned, but I think we should get our nutrition from food, not pills.
However valuable some of those supplements may be, they are really just a crutch - an excuse for not eating properly. (You've heard the commercials - "You're always on the go! You're too busy to eat properly! So stay healthy with VitaMiracle! With VitaMiracle, who needs food?") People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo, I will agree with you there! There is no substitute for proper eating...unprocessed, natural foods...complex lo glycemic hi fiber carb type foods. Moderate protein, healthy fats.
Supplements should not be a substitute. They are not un necessary, in my opinion. There are too many factors in modern life that hurt our nutrition, so a few selective supplements can be helpful. Linus Pauling, the "Vitamin C advocate" said that early humans diet was mainly greens and vegetables which provided the equivalent of 4000 mg of vitamin C daily. now, the FDA says that 60 mg is enough. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-20-2005 10:32 AM
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Phatboy
Well, there are some natural supplement alternatives to coffee! Stay away from my coffee spawn of Satan!!!!
This supplement will soon be as common as one-a day or "flintstone" vitamins And useless in a society whose incidence of scurvy is virtually non existent.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i think it's funny that we are living in possibly the most health-concious age ever, and are the least healthy.
over the years we've been sold all kinds of crap to put in our bodies. where do you think the name snake oil came from? remember cocaine? ecstacy? heroin? all health suppliments. vibrators had health-related purposes too, for curing hysteria in women. but let's talk about the oldest and most common example. vitamin c. the bit about vitamin c fighting colds isn't exactly true, per se. while it might marginally help the immune system, vitamin c is for fighting something called scurvy. the idea of using vitamin c to fight of a cold comes all the way from the 18th century, when it was discovered that eating citrus fruit, among other things, would prevent the disease. there's a story (possibly apocryphal) about british sailors being ordered to eat limes to prevent scurvy, and thus the slur "limey." but in reality, the only thing the modern cold has to do with vitamin c is that it's good for mucus membranes. our bodies are required to take in a certain amount of it daily, but most people do this pretty sufficently just from the average diet. there is no reason to take it as a suppliment. |
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phatboy writes:
I went to school with a guy who carried a huge bottle of vitamin-C pills with him wherever he went, and he popped them by the handful. He had a cold the whole four years that I knew him. Linus Pauling, the "Vitamin C advocate" said that early humans diet was mainly greens and vegetables which provided the equivalent of 4000 mg of vitamin C daily. now, the FDA says that 60 mg is enough. I get a cold once every five years or so. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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lfen Member (Idle past 4708 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
He had a cold the whole four years that I knew him. Ringo, That's a good story but it wasn't a cold. Everything I've ever read about rhinoviruses says they are self limiting. I'd suspect allergies and sinus conditions. When I worked with preschoolers if their runny noses went on for more than 2 weeks we'd suggest to their parents that they check out possible allergies and often food allergies to milk, wheat, or citrus would turn up. When they stopped the offending foods, if it was a food allergy, the runny noses went away! Then again your friend could have been allergic to the binder or something in the vitamin C pills? lfen
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
You're probably right. He may have had a succession of colds, superimposed on some sort of allergy.
(I'm old-skool: a cold is a cold is a cold. ) People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Several points, here:
1) Vitamin C is not just for preventing scurvy. It is an important part of numerous bodily processes. 2) Antioxidants are necessary in todays polluted world. 3) One can overuse Vitamin C. The body becomes resistant and large amounts are needed to maintain equilibrium. If suddenly stopped, a rebound deficiency will occur. 4) Grape Seed is the issue, and it is not only harmless but is beneficial for many things. Better than aspirin to prevent heart attacks, for one.
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Gary Inactive Member |
I really don't trust the claims made by many manufacturers of supplements, especially when they give a long laundry list of effects and benefits to be had by taking whatever it is they are peddling. I think that there is a reason why so many supplements are not backed up by the FDA.I take a multivitamin daily and eat pretty well so I figure I don't need anything else. I am in perfect health.
My roommate, however, takes all sorts of supplements as well as a slew of illegal drugs and Paxil. He's in better condition physically than mentally, but he's probably underweight. I looked at the bottle of one of the pills he was taking and it was some kind of hokey multivitamin with ginseng and spirulina algae that claimed to provide "essential nutrients" like "organic iron" and "chlorophyll". It screamed snake oil to me. I can't believe people buy stuff like that. His father is a chiropractor though, so I'm not too surprised.
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