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Author
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Topic: The bigotry of atheists
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 53 (495173)
01-21-2009 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Modulous
01-20-2009 6:05 PM
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I think bigotry is a bullshit term.
Bigotry:
quote:
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
intolerance quote:
1. lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc.
2. incapacity or indisposition to bear or endure: intolerance to heat.
3. abnormal sensitivity or allergy to a food, drug, etc.
4. an intolerant act.
From these definition we can see that even an unwillingness to respect contrary beliefs is bigotry.
So, if those examples are not sufficient, does anybody have any examples of intolerance or bigotry coming from 'atheist secular fundamentalists'? Its not that hard to find atheists disrespecting christians on the web.
As a point of order, I'd like to discount a certain possible 'kind' of bigotry and intolerance. If, for example, a group of people are deliberately lying about the way a lethal virus is spread resulting in thousands of deaths per year - being intolerant of that group's actions doesn't count for our purposes even if that group is religious or their actions religiously inspired. Let us call this 'kind' of intolerance constructive intolerance. It is intolerance against immoral actions rather than simply intolerance against beliefs or skin colour or what have you which we might call 'destructive intolerance'. But whether or not something is immoral is just your subjective opinion and people aren't going to agree on what is constructive and what is destructive. The group that cries intolerance the most is in no better position to determine whether or not something should be tolerated and they end up doing the same thing that they are fighting against. People reply that being intolerant of intollerance is not really intolerance, but they use thier own subjective opinions to determine just what should be allowed to be tolerated, just like the group that they are opposing. Its hypocritical bullshit.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2009 6:05 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 6 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 12:47 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 7 of 53 (495186)
01-21-2009 1:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Modulous
01-21-2009 12:47 PM
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Agreed Really? That crying bigotry is hypocritical bullshit? Huh....
but I'd still like to see what people are thinking of when they talk of the bigotry of atheists especially in a post that focusses on the changing landscape of racial bigotry in the US. Don't forget to consider the source  From my experiences, atheists tend to be smug and condescending to theists. That's bigotry as defined above.
We'll never agree, of course - but when has that impacted debating around here. Of course not... Who wants to sit around and agree all day!?
not people who frequent a debate board Edited by Catholic Scientist, : spelling
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 12:47 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 1:51 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 9 of 53 (495196)
01-21-2009 2:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Modulous
01-21-2009 1:51 PM
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Would you say that being smug is 'complete intolerance'? I don't know what makes intolerance complete. From the definitions above, intolerance is unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect. Being smug is disrespectful, but completely? I don't know.
It seems to me to be pushing the limits of the subjectivity beyond reasonable capacity there. How do we know where the limit, or what the reasonable capacity, is?
Of course not... Who wants to sit around and agree all day!? not people who frequent a debate board I disagree.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2009 1:51 PM | | Modulous has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 11 of 53 (495604)
01-23-2009 3:32 PM
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DA's latest thread
Underpass stains, burnt toast & the pervasiveness of the Cult of the Virgin Mary Where we get such gems as:
quote:
I understand not every religious person believes these things (i.e. images of Mary or Jesus burnt onto toast are some type of divine sign from God) but why does humanity (religious or otherwise) even entertain stupid, ignorant, pseudoscientific bullshit phenomena as such? In addition, why does the media feel like this crap is worthy of being on the headline news?
quote:
This is pure emotional greed bordering on psychosis.
Bigotry?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: DA's latest thread
If this is bigotry, I would say it is justified. I'd bet that most bigots do feel that their bigotry is justified.
If you want to go by the dictionary definition of bigotry which according to Merriam-Websters is "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices" than everyone on earth is a bigot to one opinion or another. Yeah, its a bullshit term.
But if you read on it further refines this defition: "especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance". Did you consider that intolerance includes a refusal to simply respect?
I am not a racial or ethnic bigot. Just maybe an anti-idiotic behavior bigot  Without a standard for idiocy, you're no better than the racial and ethnic bigots.
BTW, I do not hate these people. But you've refused to respect them, bigot.
I just think it is a waste of time, money and effort that could be spent to better use elsewhere. Just!? Riiight... That's why your OP just said: "Look at this. It is a waste of time, money and effort that could be spent to better use elsewhere." ...and nothing more 
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: DA's latest thread
I'd bet that most bigots do feel that their bigotry is justified.
LOL, So that means you are bigoted about me being supposedly a bigot? Do you see the slippery slope here?
Yeah, its a bullshit term.
Yeah, its a bullshit term. So what is your definition of a bigot?
Someone who disagrees with a liberal.
Did you consider that intolerance includes a refusal to simply respect? You are not respecting my "bigoted" beliefs, so that makes you a bigot as well. I don't have a problem being a bigot. I disrespect a lot of people.
And how do you define "respecting someones beliefs"? Not regarding or treating them with contempt or rudeness.
Without a standard for idiocy, you're no better than the racial and ethnic bigots. My standard of idiocy is that if your supernatural beliefs interfere with the rights and freedoms of others, than you are in the wrong.
Your own personal/subjective standard is no standard at all. Stopping to look at a stain on the wall is not interfering with anyone else's rights. That "traffic control" has to be brought in is a result of the over-crowding. The over-crowding shouldn't be specifically allowed in this or any other case.
But you've refused to respect them, bigot. And you refuse to respect me, bigot. See where this gets us?
Yeah, its a bullshit term.
Just!? Riiight... That's why your OP just said: "Look at this. It is a waste of time, money and effort that could be spent to better use elsewhere." ...and nothing more So you think this is a good expenditure of our taxpayer money? To protect people while worshiping a piece of concrete? To spend money and time investigate this rubbish on the news? That is a good expenditure of time, money and energy? Really !?! I could find a hundred better ways of expending this time, money and effort.
Non-sequitur.
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Catholic Scientist called me a bigot because I pointed out that I thought it was stupid that people focus so much time, money and effort (including tax payer money) on inane phenomena such as the image of the virgin mary on a piece of concrete of an underpass. No, I called you a bigot asked if you were a bigot for the bolded sections in these quotes:
quote:
I understand not every religious person believes these things (i.e. images of Mary or Jesus burnt onto toast are some type of divine sign from God) but why does humanity (religious or otherwise) even entertain stupid, ignorant, pseudoscientific bullshit phenomena as such? In addition, why does the media feel like this crap is worthy of being on the headline news?
quote:
This is pure emotional greed bordering on psychosis.
I only called you a bigot one time in Message 13 and that was for your refusal to respect them. ABE: And I was going to leave that one time out so I could claim that I never actually did call you a bigot (forseeing that you would claim that I did). But, I left it in because I thought it was funnier. Oh well, it blew up in my face. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 22 of 53 (495644)
01-23-2009 6:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Rrhain
01-23-2009 6:11 PM
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Ah, yes. The "refusing to accept bigotry is bigotry" response. Ah, yes. The "refusing to accept bigotry isn't bigotry" response. From Message 5 quote:
People reply that being intolerant of intolerance is not really intolerance, but they use their own subjective opinions to determine just what should be allowed to be tolerated, just like the group that they are opposing.
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Usually spoken by a bigot when they realize that they cannot justify why they wish to deny to others that which they demand for themselves. Who's talking about denying anyone anything? Oh, I forgot. You have a your own unique definition of 'bigotry'.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2009 6:11 PM | | Rrhain has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2009 10:03 PM | | New Cat's Eye has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Tolerance and respect are not the same thing
Tolerance and respect are not the same thing
I stand by my statements. If you want to call me a bigot fine. Honestly, I don't use the term (unless I'm trying to be funny). Like I said, its a bullshit term.
BTW, do you respect the beliefs of a pedophile? No? I guess you are a bigot then? (I am being sarcastic to prove a point) Do you respect the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate followers who committed mass suicide or Jim Jones who forced the suicide of all his followers? How about Mormon fundamentals who believe in polygamy, do you respect there beliefs? I refuse to respect those beliefs so, by definition, I am bigoted towards them.
Why should we respect all religious beliefs? Do you respect all political beliefs? I would venture not. What makes religion so special to deserve our respect? I don't have a problem being a bigot.
BTW, tolerance and respect are two different things. I tolerate religious belief as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment (as long as they do not encroach on the freedoms and rights of others). But there is nothing that says I have to respect these beliefs. Tolerance includes respect...
If a political or any belief is just plain stupid and detrimental to society, we would be foolish to credit this belief with respect wouldn't we? Its hypocritical to use a subjective determination to discredit another subjective determination's deserving of respect. By your own criteria, I should not credit the above belief with respect if I think it is just plain stupid and detrimental to society.
and as a parallel topic: Most of the religious right do think that this whole "tolerance" movement (I hope you know what I'm referring too) is a detriment to society. By your criteria, they should not be respecting it. The "tolerance movement" (an admittedly bad name but I don't know what to call it at the moment) fights this refusal to accept tolerance while claiming that the refusal to accept intolerance is not intolerance. But both sides can arrive at their position by your criteria above. One side itself doesn't determine what is and is not allowed to be tolerated. Both sides are trying to though. Shit, I'm outta time.....
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: The bigotry of those who are bigoted against being anti-bigoted
This all seemed to have started when CatholicScientist called me a bigot for me being angry against public funding being used to support religious fanatics in Califiornia worshiping a piece of concrete that looks like the Virgin Mary and "disrespecting" there religious beliefs. Really!? Wow.... Is English not your native language? Here's my entire post Message 11:
quote:
Underpass stains, burnt toast & the pervasiveness of the Cult of the Virgin Mary
Where we get such gems as:
quote:
I understand not every religious person believes these things (i.e. images of Mary or Jesus burnt onto toast are some type of divine sign from God) but why does humanity (religious or otherwise) even entertain stupid, ignorant, pseudoscientific bullshit phenomena as such? In addition, why does the media feel like this crap is worthy of being on the headline news?
quote:
This is pure emotional greed bordering on psychosis.
Bigotry?
Notice the question mark at the end? I didn't call you a bigot, it was a question. Notice the bolded section? It didn't have anything to do with you being angry about public funding. It was these phrases:
quote:
stupid, ignorant, pseudoscientific bullshit & This is pure emotional greed bordering on psychosis.
that made me think this might be the bigotry that is the topic of this thread. So how do you get this:
This all seemed to have started when CatholicScientist called me a bigot for me being angry against public funding being used to support religious fanatics in Califiornia worshiping a piece of concrete that looks like the Virgin Mary and "disrespecting" there religious beliefs. From that? And why quote disrespecting? Do you find you comments respectful? But anyways.... the topic. From the OP:
quote:
However, Bertot recently brought up the "bigotry and intolerance of the Atheistic Secular Fundamentalists twords nearly all religion and Theism". I'd like to discuss this in more detail.
I brought your thread up in this one to ask if that was this "bigotry" that the OP was referring too. Is what you did in the other thread the kind of stuff that Bertot is referring too?
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Message 40 of 53 (497192)
02-02-2009 12:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Rrhain
01-23-2009 10:03 PM
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quote:
Who's talking about denying anyone anything?
You were. Or have you forgotten your own words? Message 18 Catholic Scientist writes: I only called you a bigot one time in Message 13 and that was for your refusal to respect them. And what was DevilsAdvocate doing? According to you, not granting respect. Well, that's denying to others that which he demands for himself. No, that's not why I called him a bigot. You're just trying to force your definition. The refusal to respect is inherant to the dictionary definition of bigotry.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2009 10:03 PM | | Rrhain has replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Where does it talk about respect? Its inherant to intolerance. I spelled it out in Message 5:
quote:
I think bigotry is a bullshit term.
Bigotry:
quote:
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
intolerance quote:
1. lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc.
2. incapacity or indisposition to bear or endure: intolerance to heat.
3. abnormal sensitivity or allergy to a food, drug, etc.
4. an intolerant act.
From these definition we can see that even an unwillingness to respect contrary beliefs is bigotry.
And how am I being intollerent. By disrespecting something because you think its senseless.
I just made a comment that I think this behavior is stupid and silly. You implied that humanity shouldn't entertain the phenomenon and said that it is nearly psychotic greed.
That is a far cry from hating and being intollerant of these people. Is it though? That's the question.....
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Ok, if you want to consider this some form of bigotry fine. Its not that I have some desire to consider these things bigotry, its that I honestly don't understand what it really is. I'm going from what I can look up in the dictionary.
But then everyone on Earth would then be considered a bigot because there is no one, including yourself, who respects every opinion they may disagree with. That's why I'm calling it a bullshit term.
Nice going on destroying the historical context of the word "bigot" there CS I don't know much about the historical context, I'm fairly new to the term. Rrhain seems to think that you have to be denying someone something in order to be a bigot. You seem to think it has to do with treatment and that it can be justified. I'm under the impression that the simple racist phrase: "Black people are stupid." would be a form of bigotry. But it doesn't deny anyone anything so it doesn't fit Rrhain's definition and if you say it in private then you wouldn't be treating anyone so it wouldn't fit your definition. According to my definition though, since it is disrespectful it can be considered bigotry. But then, as you see, it makes it a bullshit term. So is this disrespect towards the theists by the atheists actual bigotry? Edited by Catholic Scientist, : typo
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