The bigotry of atheists

If this is bigotry, I would say it is justified.If you want to go by the dictionary definition of bigotry which according to Merriam-Websters is "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices" than everyone on earth is a bigot to one opinion or another. But if you read on it further refines this defition: "especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance".I am not a racial or ethnic bigot. Just maybe an anti-idiotic behavior bigot BTW, I do not hate these people. I just think it is a waste of time, money and effort that could be spent to better use elsewhere.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

LOL, So that means you are bigoted about me being supposedly a bigot? Do you see the slippery slope here? So what is your definition of a bigot? You are not respecting my "bigoted" beliefs, so that makes you a bigot as well. And how do you define "respecting someones beliefs"? I disagree with the belief that a salt water stain on a concrete wall of an underpass is a sign of god, however that is not so much what I have a problem with. If one morning someone woke up and saw a image of Jesus on there pancakes and thought it was a message from God I could care less, they have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't trample the freedoms and rights of others.However, if you read the story these people are wasting tax payer money by making cops and other public servents divert there time to direct traffic, keep people from getting run over, doing research on the damn stain, etc as well as media attention that could be spent better elsewhere covering real stories like the millions of men, women and children who die everyday of starvation, of sectarian violence or of deadly diseases. THAT is what we need to focus our attention on. THAT is what I get upset about! My standard of idiocy is that if your supernatural beliefs interfere with the rights and freedoms of others, than you are in the wrong. And you refuse to respect me, bigot. See where this gets us? So you think this is a good expenditure of our taxpayer money? To protect people while worshiping a piece of concrete? To spend money and time investigate this rubbish on the news? That is a good expenditure of time, money and energy? Really !?! I could find a hundred better ways of expending this time, money and effort.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Read the posts before you chime in Artemis.Catholic Scientist called me a bigot because I pointed out that I thought it was stupid that people focus so much time, money and effort (including tax payer money) on inane phenomena such as the image of the virgin mary on a piece of concrete of an underpass.I was just making the point that if I am a bigot than he is as well for "not respecting my beliefs" (according to CS).The term "bigot" is thrown around so much here, that it really no longer has any meaning.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

I stand by my statements. If you want to call me a bigot fine.Like I said, what you do in the privacy of your own home, I could care less about. But if you divert public money away from really important things like fighting crime, science, medical research, etc than YES I am going to wave the BULLSHIT FLAG!BTW, do you respect the beliefs of a pedophile? No? I guess you are a bigot then? (I am being sarcastic to prove a point)Do you respect the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate followers who committed mass suicide or Jim Jones who forced the suicide of all his followers?How about Mormon fundamentals who believe in polygamy, do you respect there beliefs?Why should we respect all religious beliefs? Do you respect all political beliefs? I would venture not. What makes religion so special to deserve our respect?BTW, tolerance and respect are two different things. I tolerate religious belief as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment (as long as they do not encroach on the freedoms and rights of others). But there is nothing that says I have to respect these beliefs.If a political or any belief is just plain stupid and detrimental to society, we would be foolish to credit this belief with respect wouldn't we? Why is religious belief any different?BTW, you seem to not respect my opinion but in all seriousness I don't consider you a bigot, just in error. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Correct spelling

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

It can but not necessarily. I can tolerate a certain amount of stupidity from the junior Sailors that work for me (this works in the case of children as well), but I don't respect them when they are being stupid (i.e. being drunk but not necessarily disorderly). Now if they become disorderly when they get drunk than I become intolerant and lay down the law. In either cases I do not respect there actions but in one case I tolerate there behavior and the other I do not tolerate this behavior. Now if they do something good and admirable, I both tolerate and respect there behavior. Does this make sense?In the case of the religious people worshiping the image of the Virgin Mary on the concrete wall on the underpass, I tolerate there behavior but in no way do I have to respect it. They can worship all they want. I think the behavior is stupid but they have the right to worship anything they want as long as it does not interfere with anyone else's rights and freedoms. However, I do not tolerate or condone using tax payer/public money in any way to support this activity/behavior either through police protection or otherwise.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

What a joke! This is what happens when you misuse a term from its original intended meaning by using it against anyone that disagrees with you that is waters down the term from its original historical context and itself becomes meaningless.So, in the context you are using this term every human being on Earth including yourself is a bigot and the term bigot has lost any and all contextual meaning.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Already the martyr complex after only 29 posts, Thief? I have been called many of the same names on and off this board, both in real life as well as my virtual existence on the internet, but have a thick skin and I let these stupid little assessments of a person who they have never actually personally met, go in one ear and out the other. BTW, I am also in the US Navy and a thick skin is not just recommended but absolutely necessary to be able to perform one's job.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Wow, that is from left field. LOL. Just to clarify, are you saying that I hate minorities and women?Good grief. This is about the most inane, stupid discussion on EvC that I have somehow got sucked into. People are popping in left and right providing stupid little comments on a discussion no one really can quite get there head around in the first place.When someone brings rationality and logic to this discussion I will chime back in, otherwise you guys have fun discussing who it more of a bigot against bigotry.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

If RevDG was backing me, I apologize. His post was a comment to mine and I seemed to have gotten confused.Besides, I have lost track as to what is actually being argued here, i.e the bigotry of being anti-bigoted, so I am backing out with what little dignity I have left This all seemed to have started when CatholicScientist called me a bigot for me being angry against public funding being used to support religious fanatics in Califiornia worshiping a piece of concrete that looks like the Virgin Mary and "disrespecting" there religious beliefs.BTW, I have a tile in my bathroom that looks like the face of Jesus if anyone wants to pay me for it I will auction it off on Ebay.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

And you blatantly disregarded this remark in Message 13 by yourself: And like I said earlier, I could care less and am tired of being drawn into your endless anti-biogtry bigotry tirade. So let's just end this stupidity before it spreads. It helps if you not take my words out of context. Here is what I actually said IN CONTEXT (I will highlight to make sure you understand what I am saying and expound my thoughts): As can be seen I did not lump all religious people into this category and I specify that the problem isn't with religious belief but rather with the attention, time, money, etc people spend and allow the state to spend on inane phenomena such as pareidolia which has no basis in reality.Like I said earlier, I tolerate this behavior but in no way have to respect i.e. admire it. If you want to call me a religious bigot so be it however before you start throwing stones realize that my wife and many of my family and friends are Christians yet they do not call me a bigot even though they know what my beliefs (or lack thereof) are. BTW, many protestant Christians feel the same way I do about the Cult of Mary worship and pareidolia worship. One does not have to be an atheist to think this behavior is ridiculous and silly.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

LOL. I thought you said you didn't call me a bigot? Who has the short memory? Bullshit. The dictionary definition of being a bigot is this: Where does it talk about respect? Nowhere. And I do not hate these people. If anything I feel pity for them.And how am I being intollerent. Have I gone down there and picketed them or physically kept them from worshiping this image? No. Have I even advocated keeping them from practicing this behavior. No (though I did say that we should not spend state money promoting this behavior).I just made a comment that I think this behavior is stupid and silly. That is a far cry from hating and being intollerant of these people. But I am sure you will turn this around and say that my comments are bigoted.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Ok, if you want to consider this some form of bigotry fine. But then everyone on Earth would then be considered a bigot because there is no one, including yourself, who respects every opinion they may disagree with.Atheists disagree with the beliefs of theists,
Theists disagree with the lack of belief of atheists,
Deists say they are both wrong and God is a magic watch maker but does interfere in the affairs of man,
Agnostics say who cares (but I am sure I could find a belief they disagree with),
etc, etc, etc ad infinitim.So everyone is a bigot. Nice going on destroying the historical context of the word "bigot" there CS BTW, I am done with this topic. I am tired of dragging this stupidity through the mud.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Ok, that is an honest approach and I have no problem with this. I agree but many other people take this term very seriously, especially in the terms of racial prejudice. Having grown up in the South (southern USA) myself, the term bigot is taken very seriously, especially by very open minded humanists and antiracists like myself. Historically, especially in the US, the term "bigot" is traditionally applied to a person who does not tolerate other races and is derogatory towards these other races. Therefore, I don't think emotionally loaded and historically derogatory terms such as "bigot" should be thrown flipantly around anyways. In many societal circles it has the same effect but opposite meaning as racially derogatory terms. Not really. I was just conceding because you seemed so adamant about using this term to classify my statements as being bigoted and I was tired of arguing with you about it. Honestly, I don't think bigotry used in the historical context of racial or even religious bigotry can be truely justified (at least morally that is).There is a difference though between disagreeing with a person's behavior, which a person has control over, and a person's race, sex, or other physical characteristic which someone has no control over. That is why I do not think that it is appropiate to use the term bigot to someone who just disagrees with another persons behavior. No, and vice versa, disrepect towards atheists by theists is not bigotry either, in my opinion. This is just people disagreeing with each other people's worldviews. The term bigot is a relative term which different people use in different ways. But the definition I provided here is what many people use to define bigotry. Which is why websters dictionary stipulates the following: "one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance". There is an obvious difference between disagreeing with someones behavior and spewing hatred towards a specific group of people regardless of whether they are able to control these "differences" or not.Maybe I strayed to close to this line but that is not what my intention was. I do not hate these people (there are not that many people I do hate except child molesters, murderers, wife beaters, terrorists, etc.) nor do I hate there beliefs, rather I feel sorry for them and hope that they can find joy and hope in something better than a piece of concrete that happens to possibily look like the virgin Mary (such as family, friends and life in general).

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan