Religious views of Magic the Gathering--PLEASE HELP!

I would especially like to hear from those who have a religious objection to the game Magic the Gathering. I would like to hear from Phat and Dawg as I think they might help me understand the thinking of fundamentalists. I have a pressing need to understand this.In my regular and very secular program for school age children we include among many activities playing Magic the Gathering. I love the game and the parents of my players also appreciate how it encourages reading and reading comprehension skills as well as math and logic.I'm facing opposition to the game in a summer program from a co worker who finds it objectionable. I'll find out more but it's based on some sort of conservative Christian objection. Now I know some of the children who play Magic at my program are from devout Catholic families and their parents support the game i.e. buy their children the cards. I know other mainline Christians who have no problem with it.It's clear to me from the way the children play and talk about the game that like myself they are into the various strategies and tactics. Nobody is believing in worshiping demons or anything. I am going to be fighting against a ban on the cards that may even include quitting in protest but I really would like to understand why the objection. I myself don't find D&D objectionable but the person object ing to allowing children to bring Magic cards to the program lumped their objection in with Dungeons and Dragons. I also know some parents object to the Harry Potter books and I don't know what else.Where is this coming from and why? I'd like to hear any information about why these games and books are being censored as to me I see no problem with them. I don't really know how to talk to this person so any insights or viewpoints would be much appreciated. Please Help me!!!Thank you,
lfenedited spelling errorThis message has been edited by lfen, 06-16-2005 08:13 PM

The children are kindergarten through 5th grade ages 5 to 12.Two brothers 6 and 7 are very bright and their father really supports the game. I just learned today that the older brother is going from the first grade to third grade. I won't say Magic taught him to read, he is very bright but he was very motivated to read the cards and so that helped him apply himself.lfenABE: I'm not talking about over riding a parents wishes for their children. I'm talking about a staff person objecting to children whose parents approve of their playing the game bringing their cards to play the game at a camp and it's the part of the camp I'm in charge of they wouldn't even be there during the time we played Magic. So I feel they are trying to force their religious beliefs on people who don't agree with them and since this is not a religious affiliated program in any way I think this is totally uncalled for. There are some work political issues involving connections that I won't go into.This message has been edited by lfen, 06-16-2005 08:32 PM

Magic: The Spending, haha, yep it can be that way, but so can any obsession. I spend a lot more on dancing than I do Magic. I spent $55 on dancing just last weekend, well $45 of that was on workshops. I haven't spent that much money on the current expansion just a couple of decks and few cards to improve them but I just play casually for fun. Obviously I agree with you. I'm just wanting to have done some preparation before the meeting tomorrow and the better I understand how the issues might look to her the better I might deal with this and hopefully find an amicable solution after all we have to work together much of this summer. I'm still taken aback that she is trying to dictate this to me. I had already told her she didn't have to have it in her part of the program and that works fine. For example I only allow playing electronic games like Gameboy for a certain period of the day the kids know when it's time and when it isn't. No big deal.lfen

As Crashfrog's Magic: The Spending comment emphasizes its a commercial game distributed world wide. They are pretty good at keeping the images within bounds. They've had to put alternative illustrations on some Chinese cards due to a restriction against depicting skeletons! I don't know what that is about but someone asked about it on the website and that was the answer.I worked with someone who didn't participate in Halloween activities and it wasn't because they disapproved of sugar. I know it was religious grounds. I don't even know what her religion was. I got along with her real well, I liked her and she had a great sense of humor. She didn't try to stop anyone else from doing the Halloween stuff but did state she couldn't take part. I had no problem with that at all. It was easy enough to work around and I respected her but she also respected those of us who just do Halloween for fun.Hmmm, I'm glad I remembered that. I think I will use it as an example tomorrow.lfen

Well, if I can get out 3 cards in my cleric deck I can get as much life as I want, like in the billions, so go ahead and fireball me for 100, a 1000 even. I'll just laugh like a madman! :-Plfen

I think the direct connection is between these games and geekery but I'm kinda geeky and I like geeky kids. And in the one case that has happened I've respected their wishes and it was no problem.lfen

A child was incensed when a parent who was helping out at the school told her she shouldn't be reading Harry Potter. This girl's mother was a Ph.D. in hard science and was Jewish, I don't know how religious, but she certainly kept well informed about her daughter and supervised her. Her child wouldn't be reading Harry Potter if she disapproved. The child told me that she didn't think that parent should have told her that and I agreed.I don't know if Harry Potter is regarded any different from LOTR. I don't really understand this. I think I was wondering if there was some preacher, or movement that was drumming up emotion against this mainly as a way to get attention or money or something. But then my nieces played Magic sometimes with me and read and watched Harry Potter.lfen

IIRC the connection is that Richard Garfield Ph.D. the mathamatician who designed Magic was trying to sell another game. The owner of the company told him he was looking for a game that wouldn't take long to play that D&D players could play on breaks between the longer scenarios, something like that.Magic and D&D are very different kinds of games. I think you might actually like Magic but that is sheer projection on my part. I like it so I think almost everyone would like it, so I'm mostly wrong, but occasionally right. Anyway, I think of Magic as improvising virtual Rube Goldberg operations from a randomized set of parts. The game is really logical and mathamatical operations dressed up as creatures and spells, but I find the game visually as well as intellectually appealing.lfenABE: IIRC Garfield was inspired by Cosmic Encounter, a space conquest board game that had a simple play that was made interesting because each player chose a unique alien type and each alien type could break or get around one rule of the game. For example normally you couldn't see another player's hand, but one type of alien had telepathy so they could look at an opponents hand. Magic has that same thing where individual cards can over ride game rules. Cosmic Encounter was a fun quickly played game also.This message has been edited by lfen, 06-16-2005 11:57 PM

I totally agree with you on that. I hate the new card style and am still outraged that such a stupid ugly choice was made.lfen

I'd suggest you start by checking out the website:
Wizards of the CoastThey do sell a Starter game set that comes with two decks, a beginning rule book and a CD that teaches the game. I think it sell for between $10 and $15 I don't recall the actually price maybe it was $12.99?Anyway that is a good way to start. 9th Edition will be coming out sometime this summer and there will be a Starter game using those core cards which are good cards but without the more complex mechanics and so make it less confusing to learn. The 8th edition cards are still good and you could easily go with the current 8th Edition starter game.lfenABE: Oops forgot the question about group size. There is no limit on group size. The typical game is between two players but there are variants that can be adapted for 3 or 4 of even more players. Games can be played as teams or as free for alls.This message has been edited by lfen, 06-17-2005 09:03 AM

The Magic writers talk about Timmys, Johnies, and Spikes. Timmy's like to play and win with big critters,Johnies like cool combinations, and Spikes just like to win. Decks designed to win tournaments can be very expensive.Many Magic players will agree that the expensive decks designed to win tournaments are rarely the most fun decks to play. Casual Magic should be fun. Basically if someone has an overpowered deck people end up refusing to play that deck. I like using so called junk rares that cost around one or two dollars and find some odd ball way to utilize them.There are types of magic that don't allow rares.lfen

The very little I know about schools banning Pokemon had to do with when it became a mania and was distracting the children who were so into it they weren't paying enough attention to schoolwork. Also if the trading got out of hand then it just became easier to ban the game rather the deal with all the "court cases" that arose. But this relates more to the way fads sweep through occasionally reaching a fever pitch that is disruptive but then dying down if not out altogether.I remember a very brief fad with something called Crazy Bonez? kind of like marbles but with little irregular way over priced plastic critters. That seems to last only about a month or so at it's peak but kids were collecting, trading, and playing the game.When I was a kid I only recall marbles and bubblegum cards. I've probably forgotten something. But marketing is driving these fads more aggressively than it did in the fifties.lfen

The social interaction is what I and many if not most players find so enjoyable about the game. I've been able to get children to accept a socially awkward child through playing the game and the fun they had then carried out to including him in other activities until he became accepted.I've also used it to desensitize a child to fear of losing. I model being a good loser (it's no big deal, no problem, etc.) and usually you can cycle through games fast enough that you can demonstrate that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but hey we're having fun playing.lfenThis message has been edited by lfen, 06-17-2005 10:53 AM

I didn't even know there WAS a lasagne fetish so I've no idea where it came from. What has this to do with Richard Garfield or Cosmic Encounters? lfen

Oh, I just had another thought. You can play on Magic Online for free with the current Eigth Edition Theme decks. I do this and I learned I don't really enjoy online Magic and largely because though there is some social interaction it's not really like playing with people you know and I that is what makes the game really fun for me.I have a dial up connection and it took me over night to download the online game. It's pretty big. Still the information is on the Magic the Gathering web site and you can practise and the computer enforces the rules there is even a tutorial available to get one started. Anyone who doesn't know some one who can teach them might find the Magic Online resource valuable.Bit of personal history. I started using the nick "nelf" to ask Magic questions on the Usenet Newsgroups and still do, and that is my account name on the Magic Boards also. Later on I found sites that I couldn't use that nick as someone else had taken it, who'd have thought it would that popular? Eventual nelf was transformed into lfen.lfen