I'm aware that my interaction here is going to be off topic since it concerns pre-Islamic history. Problematic since jar's thread seems to focus on 19th and 20th Century history and this one concentrates on post 6th Century stuff, yet some of my contributions have been questioned.
It seemed that many wanted to go back in time in jar's thread because the Muslims started it and jar was skipping over that period of history which some felt was improper (or whatever). My suggestion was 'why stop with the Muslims' why not go further back, to the Greeks...Alexander's conquest of the known world was bloody. Wikipedia tells me he was known as Arda Wiraz Nmag or "the accursed Alexander" by the Persians for his destruction of Persepolis.
Indeed, Anatolia (Turkey) has been a flashpoint between east and west for a long long time. And that was my point, trying to find one group or orientation to blame for things is not easy and probably won't have an satisfactory conclusion. As with all of history - it is rarely a simple case of one cause, one effect.
We could, should we choose, take it back to the Iron Age. Perhaps we can take it further. No matter - there is merit in discussing only the 19th and 20th Century influences on the current emnity - with a nod to the previous few centuries for background.
Onto Voltaire. It is easy to think that the Holy Roman Empire and the classic Roman Empire are linked, and it is easy to think that the two are entirely seperate. To clarify what might be a misunderstanding of my position I was coming at this from a Byzantine angle. Classic Rome was split into the Western and Eastern parts (the Eastern part becoming what is now called the Byzantine Empire), and when Classic Western Rome was shrivelled and overcome by Visigoths and Franks etc, Eastern Rome remained (aka Constantinople). Of course the Holy Roman Empire did have the Holy Roman connection (The Pope was a major political figure - to the point where civil war broke out regarding exactly how major he should be) as well as the fact that the Holy Roman Empire recognized the Byzantine Empire's soveriegnity. Another case of history being a little more complex than convenient.
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