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Author Topic:   Purgatory
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 33 (244770)
09-19-2005 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by RC Priest
09-18-2005 10:14 PM


Re: Correct Catholic View on Salvation and Purgatory
Logically speaking, from a Christian perspective, all people are sinners. While Jesus died for our sins, it doesn’t change the fact that we still sin, and it doesn’t change the fact that we are in need of forgiveness. When we die we will die a sinful being. But Revelation 21:27 states that nothing unclean will enter heaven. And that is why Christians believe Jesus dies for us, so that we can be made pure and pleasing to God. The Bible does not tell us how Jesus’ death washes away our sins, it just tells us that they do. Its not unreasonable to suppose that at our death, those who have died in God’s friendship will find that that grace is personally activated and they are purified.
This is what Purgatory can be.
If as you say (and Protestants agree with this), that Jesus' death washes away our sins, this is exactly why, according to Protestants, no Purgatory or intermediate state is required to be clean in order to enter heaven. We are "clothed in His righteousness" as He died on the cross clothed in our sinner's filthy rags, having exchanged His perfection for our sins in a true exchange. Based on HIS righteousness those who put their trust in Him are completely cleansed and fit for heaven. Purgatory would seem to be based on an idea of some OTHER mode of cleansing than being washed in Jesus' shed blood alone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by RC Priest, posted 09-18-2005 10:14 PM RC Priest has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 33 (286053)
02-12-2006 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ramoss
02-12-2006 10:27 PM


Re: Correct Catholic View on Salvation and Purgatory
Christianity "borrowed" the concept of "Satan?" From whom?
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel... Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them... Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? ...Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? ...Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand ...Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. ...Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. ...Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
I suppose "Savior" and "salvation" had political implications, all right, but they were directly taken from the Old Testament too, just as "Satan" was also in the OT, not manufactured for the purpose if that's what you are implying. God Himself calls himself the Savior in many passages. And you of course deny it, but The Messiah was prophesied to BE God Himself in the flesh, so to call Him the Savior was simply in keeping with the ancient prophecies.
This message has been edited by Faith, 02-12-2006 11:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ramoss, posted 02-12-2006 10:27 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ramoss, posted 02-13-2006 5:16 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 27 of 33 (286054)
02-12-2006 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Chiroptera
02-12-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Correct Catholic View on Salvation and Purgatory
Christianity did not borrow anything from anyone.
Well, except for the bit about a god being born of a virgin to be a sacrifice for the world. And the part about the Supreme Being being an omnipotent, omniscient, perfect being.
This is off topic, as was Ramoss' post, which I just answered, but I think it needs some explanation. I know of no other religion where any god was actually born of a virgin. The "virgin" was no longer a virgin by the time of the birth -- or the conception for that matter.
And how does one "borrow" the idea of an omnipotent omniscient perfect God who was known to all people at one time?
This message has been edited by Faith, 02-12-2006 11:44 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 33 (286250)
02-13-2006 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ramoss
02-13-2006 5:16 PM


Re: Correct Catholic View on Salvation and Purgatory
This off topic topic is being pursued in a new threadand I answered you at this post there
This message has been edited by Faith, 02-13-2006 05:43 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ramoss, posted 02-13-2006 5:16 PM ramoss has not replied

  
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