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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures
AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 304 (206390)
05-09-2005 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by RAZD
05-08-2005 3:00 PM


Re: Lying
quote:
lying is by definition intentional falsehoods, and while it may be difficult to demonstrate intention whenever falsehoods are presented, it cannot be anything but intentional when the person fails to deal with the issue when challenged to do so.
I don't actually know for sure, but I don't think that Syamsu lied intentionally, even though he contradicted what he said all the time.
Besides, this place is, more or less, supposed to be a science site.
You just don't see scientists accusing each other of lying or of being stupid in the comments pages of professional journals, nor do you see it at conferences.
The truth is, while they may be intentionally lying, they might also be so self-deluded that they really don't believe that what they are saying is false. I think that this was the case with prominent Creationists like Gish and Morris.
In any case, I agree with Ned that it is always much, much more powerful in a debate to corner someone with their own words and show what they did rather than to come right out and say it. Readers can and will make the appropriate judgements.
We can never truly know someone's intentions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by RAZD, posted 05-08-2005 3:00 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2005 6:47 PM AdminSchraf has not replied

AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 304 (206394)
05-09-2005 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Rrhain
05-08-2005 4:42 PM


Re: Lying
quote:
AdminNosy, you didn't answer any of my questions. You pointed out reasons why a person might want to hesitate before accusing someone of lying, but you didn't say why such an accusation is bad if it can be substantiated.
It is not possible to really know people's intentions.
quote:
Isn't pointing out that someone is violating the spirit of honest discussion and debate by misrepresenting things important? Misrepresentation is a direct violation of the forum guidelines, after all (#7).
I think that there's a reason the word "misrepresent" is used in the guidelines rather than "lie".
This is because "misrepresentation" can be intentional or not, whereas "lying" is always intentional.
To accuse someone of lying is an inflammatory statement and is definitely not in the spirit of rule #3:
Respect for others is the rule here. Argue the position, not the person. The Britannica says, "Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach."
I don't think that calling someone a liar qualifies as a "coolly academic approach", nor as "respect for others".
I am confident that you can find a way to get your ideas across without blatantly accusing people of lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2005 4:42 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2005 7:02 PM AdminSchraf has not replied
 Message 225 by Rrhain, posted 05-14-2005 1:45 AM AdminSchraf has not replied

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