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Author Topic:   explaining common ancestry
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 11 of 159 (268362)
12-12-2005 6:08 PM


what this "common ancestor" looked like, or if it even existed at all! If you're going to say that this "common ancestor" just appeared, then why not simply believe that God created humans?
The most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps likely looked a little like either - tailless, hairy, probably walking sometimes on two feet and sometimes knuckle-walking. Likely they were decent tree-climbers. They almost certainly had small brains - ape-sized ones. They had to eat fruit to get vitamin C, because a gene required to make it was inactivated in their species. They could get gout, because a gene required to oxidize uric acid was inactivated in their species.
They most certainly didn't "just appear." They had ancestors, too, just like you and I do. As you dig up older and older fossils, these ancestors get smaller and less ape-looking. They would be described by a zoo-goer of today as more like a monkey or a lemur, perhaps. Go back to fifty million years ago and you'd say "squirelly-looking". 340 million years and you'd swear it was a toothy salamander. All these critters bred with critters that looked almost like them - at least as much as I look like my wife. All of them had kids that looked almost like them - as much as my kids look like me. But they weren't identical. Five hundred generations down from some ancestor in the line that led to you and me, you might have occasionally found a later ancestor that looked enough different to make you say, "Hmmm. That may not be quite the same critter as that last one I examined! The zygomatic process isn't quite the same...."
The reasons I don't "simply believe that God created humans" are that the rocks and fossils and DNA don't lie. There are bucketfuls of evidence for our common ancestry with not just chimps, but with all life on earth. There's not a thimbleful of evidence for any god.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 8:36 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 36 of 159 (268560)
12-12-2005 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Carico
12-12-2005 11:35 PM


And since there is a natural sperm barrier that renders it impossible for primates and humans to interbreed...
Where is it? I've posted a reference to how human sperm can penetrate gibbon ova. Where is this barrier?
A reference from the scientific literature would be nice.
That again is elementary.
That is not even in evidence apart you your assertion that it's "impossible." You don't know that, you just badly want it to be so. I don't know whether chimps and humans can interbreed, and I don't care at all whether they can or not: it's possible we've diverged too far. Kind of like Chihuahuas and Great Danes.
This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-12-2005 11:44 PM

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 Message 35 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 11:35 PM Carico has replied

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 Message 37 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 11:49 PM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 159 (268571)
12-12-2005 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Carico
12-12-2005 11:35 PM


Again, cats and dogs have more traits in common than humans and primates
Absolutely untrue. How many bones does a human have? A chimp?
206 each.
How many breeds of dogs have retractable claws? Of cats?
Zero and all.
How much do human and chimp cytochrome c differ?
Not at all - they're identical.
How many breeds of dogs have pupils that go to slits in the sunlight? Of cats?
None. All.
Don't get me started: I've got to get to bed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 11:35 PM Carico has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Carico, posted 12-13-2005 12:03 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 39 of 159 (268577)
12-12-2005 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Carico
12-12-2005 11:49 PM


Where is the proof for this?
Read my post: there is no proof that I know of either way, yes or no. This means that I can't say "CAN TOO!!!" but it also means that you can't talk of a "sperm barrier" UNLESS YOU CAN FURNISH SCIENTIFIC REFERENCES TO BACK IT UP!!!

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 Message 37 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 11:49 PM Carico has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 141 of 159 (272906)
12-26-2005 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by randman
12-26-2005 4:23 PM


Re: cat cat cat cat
ID in action!
Not all that intelligent - those recent models are as ugly as a mud fence!
And yes, Randman, we are aware that artificial selection, like cat breeding, involves deliberate choice on the part of the breeder. That's part of why it's so much quicker than natural selection.

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 Message 142 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-26-2005 6:45 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 158 of 159 (275086)
01-02-2006 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Steen
01-02-2006 5:23 PM


Well, I was going to respond to carico, as he is on another board
She. But she's learning nothing over there, either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Steen, posted 01-02-2006 5:23 PM Steen has not replied

  
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