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Topic: Does evolution support intelligence driven design?
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 1 of 24 (443040)
12-23-2007 2:23 PM
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As well as to humans, it is widely accepted that intelligence can be attributed to many other species. If intelligent species use intelligence in the selection of sexual partners then intelligence is an evolutionary pressure along with other natural drivers. Is this a form of intelligent design consistent with the Theory of Evolution?
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 3 of 24 (443087)
12-23-2007 6:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by RAZD 12-23-2007 5:58 PM
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So creativity (which I think is a form of intelligence) is an evolutionary pressure. So we have creative design! OK, perhaps not. Creativity is being selected but not necessarily employed in the selection process. But surely people do make intelligent decisions when choosing partners. It's not just instinct is it? Edited by sinequanon, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 2 by RAZD, posted 12-23-2007 5:58 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 7 of 24 (443249)
12-24-2007 7:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx 12-23-2007 8:04 PM
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Re: Misunderstanding the argument
But then, it is entirely possible that I may be misinterpreting your OP. If so, please clarify your position for me. I deliberately used the phrase "intelligence driven design" rather than Intelligent Design, to avoid direct association. Is intelligence involved in the process of selecting a sexual partner? The idea is to consider whether intelligence involves "the mind" and to what extent the mind is considered a physical thing.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-23-2007 8:04 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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But intelligence was involved in the survival of the "red hair genetics" (forgive my terminology)? So your "mind", rather than just your instinct, intervened in the evolution process?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-23-2007 7:14 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 12 of 24 (443264)
12-24-2007 8:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 9 by sidelined 12-24-2007 8:07 AM
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Re: Misunderstanding the argument
So what you are actually needing the answer to is "To what extent is the mind considered a physical thing?" Eventually.
since this is necessary in order to answer the larger question of "Does intelligence involve the mind?" correct? No. This can be answered whether or not the mind is considered a physical thing.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 9 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2007 8:07 AM | | sidelined has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 13 of 24 (443267)
12-24-2007 8:46 AM
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Just to clarify. The thread is asking if intelligence is involved in evolution through the process of selection. The context of the thread can be discussed as an addendum or in a seperate thread, once the main point has been answered.
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Again, that is not what you asked in your OP... RAZD answered it so that's a matter of opinion. I have clarified.
It's called "artifical selection". Would you say it is confined to humans or could it apply to other species? Edited by sinequanon, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2007 9:36 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 21 of 24 (443626)
12-26-2007 6:19 AM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Buzsaw 12-25-2007 11:40 PM
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Re: Misunderstanding the argument
Hi Buzsaw. The argument would not replace TOE. Question is, does TOE support the argument? Is intelligent selection (someone called it artificial selection) included in TOE? If not, why not?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2007 11:40 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Message 22 of 24 (443627)
12-26-2007 6:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 19 by sidelined 12-26-2007 12:24 AM
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Intelligence.
This is important. As far as I know, there is no scientific litmus test for intelligence in a species. All we tend to measure is how close the species is to human. That is not a thorough enough definition of intelligent. Take, as an example, a male bird buiding a nest and inviting the female to inspect it. Is intelligence involved in the inspection, or is it all instinct? Is intelligence being used in determining where the female invests her genes?
This message is a reply to: | | Message 19 by sidelined, posted 12-26-2007 12:24 AM | | sidelined has not replied |
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2895 days) Posts: 331 Joined: 12-17-2007
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Re: Intelligence.
I have heard of people deliberately choosing tall partners because they are small and they don't want their children to be so small. So it does happen. With regard the nest example, is the choice instinct? If not, what is it? I am only asking if intelligence is involved, directly OR indirectly. I am not trying to prove that a bird is consciously trying to pass a on a particular trait.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 23 by Granny Magda, posted 12-26-2007 1:27 PM | | Granny Magda has not replied |
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