Military Guns for Jesus

You didn't reference them as warcrimes though, you refernced them as helping build up a nation. Which is still what I think we're doing over there. It's also irrelevant. If there are crimes comitted, they should be dealt with. You can't seriously mean that because some people commit crimes there we should just abandon the people to their fate? They should conisder letting the taliban in. They have as much right to voice their oppinion as anyone else. What they don;t have the right to do is suppress anyone, something they would certainly do again if we left. The reason I put terrorists in quotes is because I don;t think it's a black or white issue. You're telling me they don't have more freedom now (especially as pertaining to women's rights) as they did before? I didn;t say they were there fraudulently, I said they were there to serve their own interests in the first place (which can be a legitimate reason to go). Now that they are there, it would be very selfish to just leave again. It's more stable then when we would leave. It's the lesser of two evils.

Seriously!?Its like a part, or lot, number. The company that manufactures the sites decides what notation they prefer. The Army just happens to be buying parts from a company that uses Bible verses in their part numbers. Its not like the Army chose to add these to the sites. How is it indoctrination? By idiots... maybe. But really, a part number on a site is going to have a noticeable affect on our perception of being in a religious crusade. Pah-lease. What do you think the seperation of church and state actually means?Do you honestly think that if the Army buys a part from a company that uses Bible verses in their lot numbers then the seperation of church and state has been violated?Its like they're buzz words for the anti-religious. I'm under the impression that these are regular Trijicon sites and this is their normal coding notation, not that the Army specifically requested these verses to be on the sites. That would make them "off the shelf" from Trijicon. Whoopty-do. No they shouldn't drop it. No its not a violation of the seperation of church and state.Maybe we should hash out what the seperation of church and state really and actually means...

My very first sentence of my very first post in this thread described Amerikan war crimes. Yes, theses crimes are "dealt" with alllllllllll the time. Repeatedly. Here's how . . . Amerika gov and corporate media first go into denial, then minimize, then shrug its shoulders until the next incident. When things SOMETIMES go to trial, like recently, the blackwater employees who wantonly murdered innocent civilians, they are, not surprisingly, found innocent. The Iraqis and Afghans note this. Amerika ROUTINELY commits war crimes via attacking drones and illegal weapons that murder innocent women and children. ROUTINELY. Afghan people know this and complain. REPEATEDLY.How is it you don't know any of this? You're not a dumb or apathetic guy Huntard. I read many of your posts on this forum, and generally agree with you often.For every child Amerika murders in Afghan, we create another hundred enemies. How is it you cannot understand this basic idea? When you originally wrote that leaving Aghanistan would de-stabilize the country, it seemed like you thought THAT was a black and white issue. Do you now admit this MIGHT also be a grey issue? Wow, I just read an excellent article stating 9 years after the illegal and immoral amerikan invasion, women have as little rights as before. I will try to find it for you. Bottom line, Amerika couldn't give a damn about the women of Afghanistan. Or people of Iraq. Or Vietnam. Or East Timor. Or etc, etc. Yes, you're repeating yourself. And as I'll reply again, that is what the Amerikan gov and corporate media want you to believe. Now, why don't you listen to the people who completely matter? The majority of Afghans want Amerikan presence to leave.

Well ok, granted. You can use Nazis. Oh dear. It's that bad? Because I live in the secure and mellow Netherlands, I guess. These things aren;t given huge attention in our media. We have soldiers there too, and I haven't heard of any atrocities committed by them. Thank you for the compliment, by the way. I can;t look into the future, nothing is certain. However, it's is my impression that when we leave there, things will not suddenly become peaceful, and all rights gained will be left unharmed. I'd appreciate it. Really? Are they really such big assholes? Ok. I'm just concerned for the people there. I just want the best for them. I don't think leaving them in the hands of a theocracy is. If leaving them in the hands of America isn;t either, then perhaps others should take over there, who those others are, I don't care.

I sympathize. Neither in the US corporate media either. Keep in mind, this is purposeful. Ok, I should be able to find the article for you. It was only a week or two ago I read it. Amerikan apathy towards the oppressed depresses me. Indeed, recently, in another thread, **** wrote how happy he was the way that the Israelis were handling the Palestine problem (murdering women and children with phosphorous weapons.) Certainly, not all Americans think this way. Just one too many. I know you do, I could tell. .Nor do I. I can only think of an UN peace-keeping unit to help the Afghans, would be helpful at this point. Amerikans have lost ALL credibility there. I concur.

How do you feel about fighting a holy war? How would you feel if you were thrust into it, fighting for something which means absolute shit to you? Fighting something that you don't believe in? Going to war for the sake of Uncle Sam is one thing: soldiers DON"T have a choice. But adding religious connotations onto it? I know it's hard for you to imagine, what with being catholic and all, not wanting to die for religion. I'm sure you would want to. But guess what? not everyone shares your views. I met NUMEROUS atheists and non-christians in my time of service. Imagine the hindu soldier in that ranger battalion who is now forced to use this sight.The simple fact of the matter is: these numbers DO have a religious connotations and they have no reason being on GI gear. How is it different then issuing a bible? Why stop at weapon sights? Why not make them pray to YOUR god before they roll into battle? Or make you pray to Allah?Religion IS a choice. Christianity just happens to be the default one that is thrust into everything.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

Why did you avoid all my questions and rebuttles? The reason they are on GI gear is that the company that makes the sites for the Army uses them in their coding notation. It doesn't matter what notation they use. They need the sites. It just so happens that the company that the Army buys them from uses bible passages in their coding notation. Because that is the only item they buy from this company? But what do you mean "stop"? They didn't even "start". The Army didn't choose to put these on there. This has nothing to do with that whatsoever, at all. And you're just letting your anti-religious fervor cloud your judgement.The particular coding notation that parts manufacturers use on items they sell to the army has nothing to do with the seperation of church and stae, nor with indoctrination, nor does it have any affect on any soldier that uses those parts.This is ridiculous.Is there no straw you won't grasp at to fight religion?Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

Hey Huntard,I think this was the artlcle about women's rights, still denied, in Afghanistan:A Voice of Resistance in Afghanistan
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.The following is also a very good read about Amerikan atrocities, and the corporate media cover-ups, and the true will of Afghan people:
Serial Catastrophes in Afghanistan threaten Obama Policy
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.And another of corporate media silence. (Including the BBC? Shhh, here comes Straggler)
Were Afghan Children Executed By Us-Led Forces? And Why Aren't The Media Interested?
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.

Why do you spell America with a k instead of a c?ABE:I did find this:

quote:

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In the 1960s and early 1970s in the United States, leftists, particularly the Yippies, sometimes used Amerika rather than "America" in referring to the United States.[1] It is still used as a political statement today.[2] It is likely that this was originally an allusion to the German spelling of America, and intended to be suggestive of Nazism, a hypothesis that the Oxford English Dictionary supports.

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In broader usage, the replacement of the letter "C" with "K" denotes general political skepticism about the topic at hand and is intended to discredit or debase the term in which the replacement occurs. [9] Detractors sometimes spell former president Bill Clinton's name as "Klinton" or "Klintoon".

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from hereEdited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

That's a European way of spelling it. I wonder if dronester might not be American. He certainly seems a bit Americaphobic...

It shows my harsh disapproval of specific American policies. Satiric misspelling - WikipediaHuntard,
here's another article on women's rights in Afghan:
Afghanistan Wars and Women's Rights
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/22890"So if you say you are a feminist who wants human rights in Afghanistan, it's time to step back from the thrill of being an insider in Washington; it's time to step back and think about if maintaining empire, sustaining occupation, and killing thousands of civilians is really what your "human rights" campaign is all about."

Oh, I do apologize. All of your questions appeared to be rhetorical. So you would be ok with Q'ran verse quotes? It DOES matter because if a soldier is issued this, he HAS to use it. He has to be dress-right-dress with rest of the unit. If it was a simple meaningless serial number, there is no qualm. What if Trijicon was, instead, a satan worshipping company and these verses were from the satanic bible? Would THAT be ok? it wouldn't happen because christianity is the defacto religion so anything jesus related is ok, right? Fuck everyone who doesn't think so. No. They are a welcome commodity to an infantryman to have optical sites. Hell, a well trained sniper doesn't even need an optical sight. I'm sure they knew about it, yet didn't acknowledge it until someone else found out. And when does it become a problem for you? When it's a different religion, that's when. Look, I do NOT like that this ONE particular religion has majority rule. THAT is why I am against this. Why should those who don't believe in your bible "just suck it up" "it's not hurting anyone". Sure, just let bible verses slip in anywhere, right? no problem for you because it's YOUR religion.

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl SaganFor me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan

I often wonder, would it be better for the world if every individual considered themselves, first and foremost: Earthlings?Then, in a less worthwhile tone, our nationalities?I suppose this would be treasonous talk to many people.

Very true, I didn't mean to sound derogatory. I'm Swedish myself, by the way (although I now live in the states).I just thought it was interesting how you spell "Amerika" and didn't capitalize "usa" in your profile. Just tiny cues that made me think you might not be the average patriotic American Respectfully,-Meldinoor

Hi Dronester, Well said, dude. And excellents posts! I commend you for once again standing on the side of truth and righteousness.When I get home, I'll try to find the znews article that gives specific reasons for our current interests in Afghanistan - from the speech Obama gave at West Point.- Oni