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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1294 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 61 of 128 (549999)
03-11-2010 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Pauline
03-11-2010 9:26 PM


Hi Dr,

God loves you. Repent or perish.

Just so you know, that particular tactic never works on someone who doesn't already subscribe to your theology. In other words, it might work on a lapsed Christian, or someone of a different denomination, but you'll never ever convince a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist, or anyone else that you're spreading "good news" with threats of Hell...whether you believe it to be true or not.

In fact, it's far more likely to cause someone to immediately reject what you're saying...often it can provoke such an emotional reaction that it will color all future interactions with you. Think about how you'd react to a Muslim who tells you that you must abandon Christ and worship Allah or face eternal torment in the same "do what I say or die" manner you've just used.

You've effectively given those you've experienced friction with already even more reason to dislike you and react to your every word with hostility.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 9:26 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 10:19 PM Rahvin has responded

Pauline
Member (Idle past 1842 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


(1)
Message 62 of 128 (550001)
03-11-2010 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Rahvin
03-11-2010 10:00 PM


...but you'll never ever convince a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist, or anyone else that you're spreading "good news" with threats of Hell...whether you believe it to be true or not.

So, how can "good" news be spread without mentioning the "bad" element that the "good" eradicates?

Just so you know, that particular tactic never works on someone who doesn't already subscribe to your theology.

1. This isn't a tactic, Rahvin. Its truth.

2. Perhaps you are forgetting that there considerable many here that once believed, like yourself. It shouldn't really be more cumbersome to hear what they've already heard AND despised to the fullest extent. When you guys have reached your mental saturation point, you become de-sensitized to truth. IOW, I feel like nothing that I say can make you hate God more. You see?

But you know, I believe God's grace is far more profound than our folly.

You've effectively given those you've experienced friction with already even more reason to dislike you and react to your every word with hostility.

My dear Rahvin, they can't dislike me more.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Rahvin, posted 03-11-2010 10:00 PM Rahvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Rahvin, posted 03-12-2010 2:23 AM Pauline has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(1)
Message 63 of 128 (550002)
03-11-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Pauline
03-11-2010 9:06 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
Hey Doc,

So, define a true christian in your own words, will you hooah?

Why should hooah be able to define a true Christian? For that matter why should you?

There are many versions of Christianity. Who decides which is the right one? You? Me? The Pope? Fred Phelps? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if there is any validity to Christianity, then it's rather up to God to decide which of the splinter-faiths founded in his name are valid and which aren't (that's assuming that he even cares). Now since none of us happen to be God, that leaves us rather stumped when it comes to deciding who's got that golden ticket.

There is another reason why I dislike the "Real Christian" argument; it is extremely reminiscent of an argument which is used to excuse murder. I'll explain.

Muslims are not supposed to kill other Muslims. Most Muslims take this stricture pretty seriously. This poses an obvious problem for those scumbags who might like to commit terrorist atrocities, atrocities that might claim Muslim lives. So how do they get around this?

It's simple; those people are not real Muslims. They don't happen to subscribe to the exact same subset of Islam as the terrorists, so they, by definition, can't be real Muslims. So it's okay to kill them. It makes perfect sense; if you're completely cracked. It also embraces the exact same logical fallacy as you are employing, the No True Scotsman. I hope you can appreciate why I find such arguments illogical and deeply distasteful.

Whoever accused me of that fallacy has a much bigger problem than I do, believe it or not.

I'm going to heaven when I die, and he.....

That would be me. Implicit threats of damnation eh? Stay classy Doc.

Of course, until that blessed day that I receive my richly deserved divine punishment, you are still left with a glaring fallacy as an argument. Care to defend it? Or withdraw it? Or are you just going to resort to implicit threats as a substitute for logic?

--Yeah, I sincerely apologize OP. I feel guilty for stealing the conversation.

Well let's see. Ichi's OP went "Wah! You guys are mean! Wah!" (I'm paraphrasing a little).

I think your contribution here has been pretty much on topic myself.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 9:06 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 10:45 PM Granny Magda has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 64 of 128 (550003)
03-11-2010 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Pauline
03-11-2010 9:59 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
Ahh, don't you wish it were that simple, hooah?

It is that simple. Like I said, it is not i who hs the "no true scotsman fallacy" problem.

No wonder you get all your facts about Christianity wrong.

Please, point out one thing I have stated about christianity that is factually wrong, rather than wrong in your opinion. You do know the difference, yes? Every single one of you christians has a different set of beliefs, yet you all live your lives according to the same damn book.

Hey...you're cheating. If you're gonna talk about religious scriptures, then say bhagavad gita......hindus are people who adhere to its teachings, not pieces of literature.

Thanks.

OF course you would, darling. For you don't even understand what religion is.

Ah right, so not only does your no true scotsman fallacy apply to christianity, now it extends to religion as a whole.

What should I say to someone who thinks God doesn't exist because He's not physically observed?....other than you have serious mental problems.

I believe YOU have the mental problems for believing in fairy tales.

Should I think that you don't understand faith, or that you are mentally derailed?

You are welcome to any opinion of me you like. However, how christ like is it for you to call one "mentally de-railed"?


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 9:59 PM Pauline has not yet responded

  
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1842 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


(1)
Message 65 of 128 (550007)
03-11-2010 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Granny Magda
03-11-2010 10:22 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
GM writes:

Why should hooah be able to define a true Christian? For that matter why should you?

There are many versions of Christianity. Who decides which is the right one? You? Me? The Pope? Fred Phelps? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if there is any validity to Christianity, then it's rather up to God to decide which of the splinter-faiths founded in his name are valid and which aren't (that's assuming that he even cares). Now since none of us happen to be God, that leaves us rather stumped when it comes to deciding who's got that golden ticket.

I would not have asked hooah to define a true Christian had I myself not been able to. Truth is, Granny M, that no human need ever come with a original definition because the Bible defines a true Christian.

When I asked hooah, I was wanting to know whether or not he had the Biblical one.

That would be me. Implicit threats of damnation eh? Stay classy Doc.

Of course, until that blessed day that I receive my richly deserved divine punishment, you are still left with a glaring fallacy as an argument. Care to defend it? Or withdraw it? Or are you just going to resort to implicit threats as a substitute for logic?

That day is anything but blessed, GM.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Granny Magda, posted 03-11-2010 10:22 PM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Granny Magda, posted 03-11-2010 11:00 PM Pauline has responded
 Message 67 by hooah212002, posted 03-11-2010 11:26 PM Pauline has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 66 of 128 (550008)
03-11-2010 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Pauline
03-11-2010 10:45 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
Is that it? Oh.

I would not have asked hooah to define a true Christian had I myself not been able to. Truth is, Granny M, that no human need ever come with a original definition because the Bible defines a true Christian.

Chapter and verse please. I'm not just going to take your word for it you know.

That day is anything but blessed, GM.

But that won't stop you from gloating over it and using the threat of damnation in a pathetically doomed attempt to bully folks into agreeing with you. Like I said, stay classy.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 10:45 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 11:27 PM Granny Magda has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 67 of 128 (550010)
03-11-2010 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Pauline
03-11-2010 10:45 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
When I asked hooah, I was wanting to know whether or not he had the Biblical one.

1: I don't believe shit in the bible.
2: There are far, far too many interperetations of any given bible to say that it is a valid source of information regarding what it takes to be a true christian. If you all came to a conclusion on what it says, then we can talk. Until then, it is rote with disinformation as far as I am concerned.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 10:45 PM Pauline has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Blue Jay, posted 03-12-2010 11:17 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
Pauline
Member (Idle past 1842 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


(1)
Message 68 of 128 (550011)
03-11-2010 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Granny Magda
03-11-2010 11:00 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
Chapter and verse please. I'm not just going to take your word for it you know.

There is no one verse that encompasses everything there is to define in a true Christian. If you want to know the defintion, you've got to read the Bible with the intention of discovering it and assimilate what you read.

But two verses readily come to mind on this specific occasion:

1. James 1:22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

2. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enough is enough. Its time for me to shake the dust off my feet and go to a different place...

G'night.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Granny Magda, posted 03-11-2010 11:00 PM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 03-12-2010 12:00 AM Pauline has not yet responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 69 of 128 (550013)
03-12-2010 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Pauline
03-11-2010 11:27 PM


Re: BOM vs Bible
Okay,

There is no one verse that encompasses everything there is to define in a true Christian.

Indeed not.

If you want to know the defintion, you've got to read the Bible with the intention of discovering it and assimilate what you read.

Don't be silly. Either there is a definition or there is not.

But two verses readily come to mind on this specific occasion:

Can't help but notice that neither of those verses mention the word "Christian". Nor do they define anything much of anything. Certainly using the words of Jesus to define a Christian is absurd, since there were no Christians at that time.

Pretty weak tea I'm afraid.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 11:27 PM Pauline has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 70 of 128 (550014)
03-12-2010 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Pauline
03-11-2010 9:26 PM


Dr. Sing writes:
Oh, and thanks for the 1 on message 53, guys. I appreciate it.

It wasn't me. I have not rated that message.

If I had rated it, then a 1 would be in consideration. That's a message that did not need to be posted. It doesn't contribute anything useful to the discussion. And that would be one of my criteria for a 1.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 9:26 PM Pauline has not yet responded

ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 2617 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 71 of 128 (550015)
03-12-2010 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Pauline
03-11-2010 9:26 PM


Since you asked.
Not that I bother at all with ratings - honestly, who could possibly care? - but since you were being such a whiner I went back and gave that post a 1 as well. You've now dropped from a 1.8 to a 1.7.


I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon
This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 9:26 PM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Pauline, posted 03-12-2010 12:30 AM ZenMonkey has responded

Pauline
Member (Idle past 1842 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 72 of 128 (550016)
03-12-2010 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by ZenMonkey
03-12-2010 12:25 AM


Re: Since you asked.
Even you dropped me to a -567, that wouldn't mean a thing to me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-12-2010 12:25 AM ZenMonkey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-12-2010 12:38 AM Pauline has responded

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 2617 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 73 of 128 (550017)
03-12-2010 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Pauline
03-12-2010 12:30 AM


Re: Since you asked.
Well then, stop whining if it means so little to you.


I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Pauline, posted 03-12-2010 12:30 AM Pauline has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Pauline, posted 03-12-2010 1:04 AM ZenMonkey has responded

Pauline
Member (Idle past 1842 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 74 of 128 (550019)
03-12-2010 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by ZenMonkey
03-12-2010 12:38 AM


Re: Since you asked.
Watch what you're saying.

I only mentioned something about the rating system. A lot of people just jumped in on that and totally lost control. If I replied to them, am I whining? I am as composed as I was at the beginning of the discussion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-12-2010 12:38 AM ZenMonkey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-12-2010 11:57 AM Pauline has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1294 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 75 of 128 (550022)
03-12-2010 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Pauline
03-11-2010 10:19 PM


1. This isn't a tactic, Rahvin. Its truth.

It's what you believe to be the truth. I understand that you have a high degree of confidence in that belief. Convincing other people to believe the same is the trick. For that purpose, that particular statement is more off-putting than convincing.

2. Perhaps you are forgetting that there considerable many here that once believed, like yourself. It shouldn't really be more cumbersome to hear what they've already heard AND despised to the fullest extent. When you guys have reached your mental saturation point, you become de-sensitized to truth. IOW, I feel like nothing that I say can make you hate God more. You see?

By and large, Dr, atheists do not hate god - that would be much like you hating leprechauns. I don't say that to offend - I'm trying to give you a point of reference. It's difficult to hate something you don't think exists.

It's not a matter of desensitization - it's a matter of respect for other people, and simple manners. I don't know about you, but when someone threatens me with eternal torment, I consider that rather rude.

My dear Rahvin, they can't dislike me more.

Indeed. But they could like you more. For all many of us disagree with Peg, I react much better to her posts than I do to those Buz makes, for example, even though they're both very capable of conveying their points, and that's largely due to their respective attitudes.

So far I;ve been trying specifically to remain polite and nice with you, and in your responses to me you seem to have done the same.

If you'd like to end the hostility and actually debate as per the purpose of this site, you may wish to demonstrate the Christian principles of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, and of turning the other cheek. It'll help keep the moderation staff sane, and lower the blood pressure of all those involved.

Of course, that goes for them, as well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Pauline, posted 03-11-2010 10:19 PM Pauline has not yet responded

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