This is why I try not to contribute too often. Limited time and opportunity to give timely responses.
Would you agree that some things need distinction to make any sense? For instance, in order to claim that life comes from non-living matter one must ultimately make that distinction.
The distinction is arbitrary. It is made by humans to facilitate human communication. The distinction has no independent existence outside human thought.
Pray tell, why is that basic concept lost on so many people? How can you in one instance tell me that life came from non-life, while in the same breath tell me that life is just too difficult to define? That doesn't give any credence to your position.
Because the distinction
is arbitrary. We find difficulty defining life in detail because each arbitrary line we try to draw produces exceptions. In gross, however, we can clearly distinguish between rocks and birds. This leaves the false impression that there is, somewhere in the detail, a hard line between life and non-life when the evidence before us and the abiogenic hypotheses presented show us otherwise. This concept should not be this difficult for you to grasp.
No, life is not a human construct. Life is completely independent of humans or what humans think. Perhaps you meant to say that the concept of life itself is a human concept.
I meant to say precisely what I said. Life is an arbitrary human distinction made to facilitate our understanding in communication with other humans. There is no element nor particle, no force nor energy, that imparts life where in its absence there is none. Outside human thought processes and our need to draw distinctions there is only chemistry in action.
With the advances in the last 200 years the line between life and non-life becomes quite blurred. And the abiogenic hypotheses belie your insistence that there must have been a stark line between those pre-proto cells considered non-life from those more complex cells we would recognize as life.
So answer this simple question: If you can't even define what life is, then how could you possibly know that life came from non-living matter?
You use know as if to imply absolute certainty. Again, this is a science forum. Absolute certainty only exits in religious texts and falsely at its best.
But I stray...
Using the gross concept of life you are want to use let me ask this in response:
Where else could it have come from?
In the detail, however, in the reality of this universe there is no difference. The question answers itself.
Trying to define that finite point in time when the simple chemical processes that we would define as non-life suddenly became so complex that they took on the mantel of life is like trying to define the finite point in time between the early-bronze age and the middle-bronze age. Good luck with that.
So then it is speculative that it ever happened at all, would you agree?
No. The science has progressed from the realm of reasoned speculation to the level of supported hypothesis.
Is it possible that you cannot come to any rational reason why life should exist independent of some wild explanation?
An excellent twist of syntax.
There are several rational, non-wild, non-speculative, explanations for how chemistry became so complex as to produce sentient objects that look to the stars and contemplate there own existence.
Is it inconceivable that no one honestly knows?
These’s that word again. I will assume you ask for absolute certainty.
In scientific pursuits no body knows anything, ever.
The science of Abiogenesis has progressed from reasoned speculation to supported hypothesis. Much needs yet to be learned before a compelling theory can be expressed. We may never reach that level until we have other life systems to study.
But, compared to all other competing explanations, unreasoned and absurd speculations all, our level of confidence in the science continues to grow.
Second, your insistence that abiogenesis equals spontaneous generation and that abiogenesis is only defined by pop culture vernacular (truncated common internet dictionaries) is not only ludicrous but speaks a great deal to your intellectual dishonesty.
My intellectual dishonesty? What am I being dishonest about? You can try and minimize that the dictionary agrees with me if you want, but it won't help your position.
You prove my point and don’t even know it. Your insistence on using an incomplete common dictionary to foist an absurd position in the face of easily understood principles is dishonest. Your continued insistence on your absurd rendering even after having been repeatedly corrected is willfully dishonest.
I suggest you use the accepted scientific definitions of scientific terms or stop participating in scientific forums.
Oh, I'm sorry. For a minute there I thought this was a public debate forum geared towards debating, not a totalitarian dictatorship.
A public forum, yes; a public science forum. And the totalitarian dictates of proper scientific terminology are expected to be used. Deal with it.
You could also provide the "accepted" scientific definition. I'm kind of curious which people get to speak on behalf of all science. This should be interesting.
I rise to the challenge. I
do speak for all of science!
Until the community here disagrees with me, then I don’t.
I shouldn’t have to do your honest research for you.
But since you asked...
Here is a short sweet one.
here
Do note the conjunctive or after the first phrase.
Maybe you do better with pictures. Try this.
here
or this
here
Something a bit more rounded perhaps.
here
This one is more robust. Gotta love Wiki, the modern Library of Alexandria for the internet age.
here
And, since you seem bereft of the most basic knowledge on the topic I provide for you a simple primer. Not overly technical yet comprehensive of the basics. You’ll need Acrobat for this one. It’s a .pdf file
here