Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-26-2019 8:26 AM
28 online now:
Hyroglyphx, Percy (Admin), Pressie, Stile, Theodoric, vimesey (6 members, 22 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: ooh-child
Post Volume:
Total: 854,797 Year: 9,833/19,786 Month: 2,255/2,119 Week: 291/724 Day: 16/114 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123
4
56Next
Author Topic:   Effective Posting Styles (And Suggested Improvements)
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 46 of 89 (648891)
01-19-2012 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 8:23 AM


Re: Charming....
Well I thought that post made your point very effectively. And did it without compromising on your rather uncompromising style.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 8:23 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 47 of 89 (648894)
01-19-2012 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Trixie
01-19-2012 8:41 AM


Re: Charming....
I gather that you're not exactly a fan of religion but I wonder how you feel about those to whom their religion is a personal belief, is recognised as being unsupported by any evidence and plays no role in their understanding of reality and science.

They allow for the preservation of the fundamental believers. Although, on a personal level, I can converse with them just fine but when it comes to discussing religion, I will be just as vitriolic. Personal beliefs do gauge how people act; good or bad. When they hold one irrational belief, where does it stop?

The thing is: it's NOT necessarily the people who keep their beliefs to themselves that I take issue with, per se. But they DO make it that much more difficult to stop what fundies do because the moderates are the ones saying "but MY beliefs don't harm anyone. You can't tell me I can't believe this or that" and that plays right into telling the fundies the same thing. If we can't chastise the moderates (who themselves are silent in regards to the fundies) how can we rightly abuse the fundies??? Come one, come all.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Mythology is what we call someone elses religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Trixie, posted 01-19-2012 8:41 AM Trixie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 9:29 AM hooah212002 has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 89 (648899)
01-19-2012 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 8:56 AM


Re: Charming....
If we can't chastise the moderates (who themselves are silent in regards to the fundies) how can we rightly abuse the fundies??? Come one, come all.

But "moderates" are not silent in regards to fundies. In this forum deists, Christians, and atheist alike all seem to be in the same dogpile on top of Creationists and Fluddites.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 8:56 AM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 9:54 AM NoNukes has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 49 of 89 (648900)
01-19-2012 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Trixie
01-19-2012 8:41 AM


Re: Charming....
Now all we gotta do is find out why the USA is so very different from the other countries in the survey.

My guess?

Parochialism.

We all enjoy the joke about American's not being able to find Iraq on a map of Iraq and my guess is that they are unto the medievil European peasent; having no idea about how the wider world works.

/sweeping statement.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Trixie, posted 01-19-2012 8:41 AM Trixie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 9:59 AM Larni has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 50 of 89 (648901)
01-19-2012 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 9:29 AM


Re: Charming....
But "moderates" are not silent in regards to fundies.

Really? Who? Catholic Scientist and jar? If there are other moderate christians at this site who actively participate in those threads, I never see it.

Besides that, so what? EvC means diddily in regards to the big picture. For example: even the self professed catholics here have a VERY hard time bringing down the pope and admitting the vatican's hands are filthy in regards to the child abuse scandal. On a bigger picture, if moderates are not so silent, why oh why is the entirety of the race for the republican primary individuals who wear their religion on their sleeve? Someone had to vote for them. Someone wanted them in office.

In this forum deists

I never consider deists of the purest sense. The only one I can think of is RAZD anyways and he may as well be an atheist because he argues like one and when someone pushes "god" that far to the side, you may as well stop saying "god" altogether. But to each his own.

in the same dogpile on top of Creationists and Fluddites.

Perhaps. But they still defend their belief in god because when it comes down to it, they DO still believe in the same god, just in a different way. Plus, how hypocritical is it for moderates to tell fundies that their way of reading the bible is wrong, when they themselves have their own individual way of reading the same book? If this book is sooo open to interpretation, there is no way it was inspired by anything more than a bunch of goat hearders in the desert ~2k years ago which is precisely what we see when we view it through an evidence based lense and not with rose colored jeebus glasses.


Mythology is what we call someone elses religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 9:29 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 1:22 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 51 of 89 (648902)
01-19-2012 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Larni
01-19-2012 9:54 AM


Re: Charming....
having no idea about how the wider world works.

This is more true than I'd care to admit. Not only do schools barely teach world history, we don't have BBC or Al-Jazeera to tell us about the world. When mainstream media DOES report on the world, they tell people what a fucked up scary place it is and America is #1!. It really boils back down to our poor poor poor education system. Hell, Americans hate education so much, WI has it out for teachers who make too much money and are more than willing to go the route of ALL private schools....


Mythology is what we call someone elses religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 9:54 AM Larni has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3976
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 52 of 89 (648903)
01-19-2012 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 8:23 AM


Re: Charming....
I just absolutely do not feel in the slightest that religion should, any longer, be given the free social pass that it has.

I agree and I started a thread on it (before your time) Why should religion get a free pass?. I totally feel the same way as you do.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 8:23 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1123 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 53 of 89 (648942)
01-19-2012 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Straggler
01-19-2012 7:23 AM


Re: Charming....
Talking of charmers.....

game recognizes game...

I'm not sure I would describe Hoo's style as necessarily "effective" but it is entertaining at times and there is nothing wrong with strident point making in principle.

I think it's as effective as everyone elses in that, you do what you do but in the end Buz, Dawn Bertot and the like will maintain their opinions. In fact, coming across too intellectual may even propel them to formulate their arguments better.

Not for nothing, but Buz can hang with all of us for 700+ posts and not show a shred of having learned anything. Even with guys like Mod or Sun Goku who are rarely aggressive. He even thinks he came up with his own theory!

So I don't think any of us are effective individually. I think if it's anything it's the overall existence of a place like EvC where the collective argument is the most effective.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Straggler, posted 01-19-2012 7:23 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Perdition, posted 01-19-2012 1:22 PM onifre has acknowledged this reply
 Message 58 by Straggler, posted 01-20-2012 6:58 PM onifre has not yet responded
 Message 69 by NoNukes, posted 01-21-2012 12:40 PM onifre has acknowledged this reply

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1410 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 54 of 89 (648947)
01-19-2012 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by onifre
01-19-2012 1:06 PM


Re: Charming....
So I don't think any of us are effective individually. I think if it's anything it's the overall existence of a place like EvC where the collective argument is the most effective.

Which is true. We rarely get the consistent posters to change their minds (on either side). But there is a vast, shadowy network of people called "lurkers" who receive all the benefit of the discussion without any of the cost of participation.

I would guess some of the less agressive posters do more on that shadowy cabal than any of the agressive types. Though the agressive types are by far the more entertaining.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by onifre, posted 01-19-2012 1:06 PM onifre has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 2:44 PM Perdition has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 89 (648948)
01-19-2012 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by hooah212002
01-19-2012 9:54 AM


Re: Charming....
Besides that, so what? EvC means diddily in regards to the big picture.

Given that the only thing I know about you is what you post here, I don't see the relevance.

For example: even the self professed catholics here have a VERY hard time bringing down the pope and admitting the vatican's hands are filthy in regards to the child abuse scandal.

Name one such poster. I haven't seen anything like that here, but I don't read every thread.

Perhaps. But they still defend their belief in god because when it comes down to it, they DO still believe in the same god, just in a different way.

In other words, your responses to posters don't have much to do with what those posters actually post or what actions they actually take. A belief in Jesus Christ alone is enough reason for vilification. I suppose you'll get around to me at some point.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 9:54 AM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by hooah212002, posted 01-19-2012 2:38 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 56 of 89 (648964)
01-19-2012 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
01-19-2012 1:22 PM


Re: Charming....
Name one such poster.

Artemis has, on a few occasions, spoken out in threads that spoke ill of catholic priests diddling little kids.

A belief in Jesus Christ alone is enough reason for vilification.

Have I made it a secret that I think people who believe in zombie jew fairies are fucking retarded??? It is damn near impossible to get ANY of them to agree on faith based shit that it almost certainly has to come down to the defining characteristics of christians.

I suppose you'll get around to me at some point.

Didn't realize you were a christian. I suppose if our paths cross in faith and belief thread and you are on the other side, I won't spare you the rod. However, I haven't seen that so much from you......yet. You do seem a little soft on religionists the more I read your posts and I admit it to be a little disheartening given your intellect. But that's my opinion and I'm the only one who cares about my opinion.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Mythology is what we call someone elses religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 01-19-2012 1:22 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 57 of 89 (648966)
01-19-2012 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Perdition
01-19-2012 1:22 PM


Re: Charming....
I would guess some of the less agressive posters do more on that shadowy cabal than any of the agressive types. Though the agressive types are by far the more entertaining.

That very well could explain my "style" I guess, or at least my sort of atheism. I tend to listen/read more of the in your face "new" atheists. Hitchens, Dawkins, P.Z. Meyers, Matt Dillahunty and Chariots of Iron podcast are my top favorites. All of which have a very "fuck you very much" attitude. That suits me. If you were to listen to The Non-Prophets, their style HAS converted people (in absolutely NO way am I implying that I could ever even hope to do the same) so it's not unheard of for people to realize the idiocy of religion when you actually confront them with the idiocy of religion.


Mythology is what we call someone elses religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Perdition, posted 01-19-2012 1:22 PM Perdition has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 58 of 89 (649122)
01-20-2012 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by onifre
01-19-2012 1:06 PM


Re: Charming....
Oni writes:

game recognizes game...

Sussed....!!

Oni writes:

I think it's as effective as everyone elses in that, you do what you do but in the end Buz, Dawn Bertot and the like will maintain their opinions. In fact, coming across too intellectual may even propel them to formulate their arguments better.

Very true. And I naively still (at times) hope to get through to Buz. Call me mad if you will. But when confronting the likes of Buz and Dawn and ICANT I am, these days, at least as much aware of ill informed sympathisers to their cause as the unshakeable stalwarts themselves.

Oni writes:

Not for nothing, but Buz can hang with all of us for 700+ posts and not show a shred of having learned anything. Even with guys like Mod or Sun Goku who are rarely aggressive. He even thinks he came up with his own theory!

Yeah. Well. When you put it like that. I have to admit you have a point.

Oni writes:

So I don't think any of us are effective individually. I think if it's anything it's the overall existence of a place like EvC where the collective argument is the most effective.

Whether individually or en-masse we seem to be equally effective or non-effective in terms of educating stalwarts. As demonstrated repeatedly when it comes to Buz, Dawn, ICANT etc. But when it comes to lurkers and those who might support the likes of Buz etc. without really knowing why - I think both individual effort and the collective are important. But I agree the collective is the better measure.

Anyway - It's Friday. I'm drunk. Yadda yadda.....

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by onifre, posted 01-19-2012 1:06 PM onifre has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-20-2012 9:05 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 89 (649144)
01-20-2012 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Straggler
01-20-2012 6:58 PM


Re: Pitifully Deluded Sheeple
Straggler writes:

But when it comes to lurkers and those who might support the likes of Buz etc. without really knowing why - I think both individual effort and the collective are important. But I agree the collective is the better measure.

Objective people, having read and assembled all of the evidence Buz has cited for the Biblical record would know why they support Buz.

Objective folks know that everything temporal has a before, an outside of and a time in which to have happened. Objective people would know that energy must needs have had no beginning as per 1LoT.

Fortunately not all have had their minds programmed into believing science claims that defies all that is observed and what is logically impossible

Not all are naive enough to believe that life-less pre-mordial soup could, having no intelligence to drive it, allegedly emerged naturally and randomly from a bit of soup to all of life's complexities and diverse enormity observed today.

Some folks are objective enough to understand that for a tiny nation of Jews could be scattered globally for over 19 centuries to return to their itty bitty land and become a powerful nation of identifiable Jews again precisely as prophesied by ancient prophets.

Some folks are objective enough to read all of the other corroborating fulfilled prophecies that Buz has cited and go figure that the Bible has more credence. than the BB, Singularity and natural origin of life.

Some folk are objective enough to see that the most blessed, prosperous and free nations of the planet have been people having Biblical principles and the most poor and oppressed ones have not.

These are just a few reasons that it's you brain-washed sheeple who believe in unsupported impossibilities who are the pitifully deluded ones.

Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Straggler, posted 01-20-2012 6:58 PM Straggler has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-20-2012 9:12 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 66 by hooah212002, posted 01-21-2012 10:25 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 68 by Larni, posted 01-21-2012 11:45 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 74 by jar, posted 01-21-2012 6:03 PM Buzsaw has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 60 of 89 (649149)
01-20-2012 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
01-20-2012 9:05 PM


Re: Pitifully Deluded Sheeple
So there we have the exemplar of an ineffective posting style.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-20-2012 9:05 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 01-20-2012 9:20 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Prev123
4
56Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019