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Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolving the Musculoskeletal System | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
Anyway, why are you asking me to do it if you're so sure I'm such a risible moron? Could it be that there's something you want to learn from me, after all? Perhaps the meaning of "risible?" Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
You know what Crashfrog? I don't even like you and its irritating to deal with you so I probably won't be answering your relies for much longer.
Crashfrog writes: I asked why you think you need to have bones in order to have nerves Ho hum...show me where I said "I think you need to have bones in order to have nerves". Show me a organism that is under evolutionary construction that is surviving with an incomplete system please.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
none of this is on topic subbie
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
nwr writes: The thing is, when something is designed and has a large number of complexly related components that are mutually dependent on one another, the resulting designed product is quite fragile. Evolved things, by contrast, are fairly robust - they have to be or they would not survive to reproduce. How does this explain the survival of an incomplete system?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
ICDESIGN writes: Show me a organism that is under evolutionary construction that is surviving with an incomplete system please. Do you have any idea how silly that question is and why so many folk here chuckle when you make such comments? It is really important that you understand how silly that one is, but to understand, you really need to figure it out on your own. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
I concede. That was a dumb approach when there is no evolution taking place anywhere.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I don't even like you and its irritating to deal with you so I probably won't be answering your relies for much longer. You're free to reply or not reply to any of my messages as you see fit, and you always have been. I suspect that this is simply what you say to people who have been so effective at rebutting your arguments that you literally don't know what to say.
Ho hum...show me where I said "I think you need to have bones in order to have nerves". Well, you said it in message 71:
quote: So, exactly in what sense is it a "FACT" that our nerves are dependent on our bones for survival?
Show me a organism that is under evolutionary construction that is surviving with an incomplete system please. All organisms are under evolutionary construction, at all times; all systems are "incomplete" compared with the functions they will gain in the future. But if you wanted to see an organism surviving with incompletely-developed bones, muscles, skin, and nervous systems, you need look no farther than the nearest pregnant woman:
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subbie Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: |
The topic, such as it is, was fully and completely addressed in the first dozen or so posts in the thread. There's really nothing of substance left to say, so all that remains, frankly, is to ridicule you.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
How does this explain the survival of an incomplete system?
Who is the arbiter of what is complete or incomplete? You question just shows that you don't even understand the TOE. You are arguing against something that only exists in your own mind. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
ICDESIGN writes: I concede. That was a dumb approach when there is no evolution taking place anywhere. That's not a very good answer either so let's try again. Here is the post you were responding to.
jar writes: ICDESIGN writes: Show me a organism that is under evolutionary construction that is surviving with an incomplete system please. Do you have any idea how silly that question is and why so many folk here chuckle when you make such comments? It is really important that you understand how silly that one is, but to understand, you really need to figure it out on your own. Let me try to help you. As a first step, what happens to a critter that is born with incomplete systems that are essential systems? We will go slowly through this. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
ICdesign writes:
Nature does not produce incomplete systems.How does this explain the survival of an incomplete system? You are confused, because you are seeing purpose where there is none. Let me suggest a thought experiment. Go find a bright 6 year old kid, and a bunch of lego blocks. Preferably it should be the kind of 6 year old that happens to be interested in lego structures. Experiment 1:Give that kid an outline of an elaborate house or mansion, and ask him to build a lego structure that matches the outline. The chances are that he will at least try to build something similar to the outline. But his structure will very likely be quite fragile. Oh, and when it is half built, it will be an incomplete system. Experiment 2:Ask the same kid to build something that is both elaborate and robust. You might have to explain "robust" - I'm not sure if that's in a 6 year old vocabulary. The chances are that he will build something that is elaborate and robust. And when he is half done, it will still be elaborate and robust and won't be an incomplete system. When there is no specific goal to be met, it is far easier to build something where everything fits together quite well. When there is a specific goal, that is far harder because the robustness requirement conflicts with the goal. Evolution builds robust structures, precisely because there is no goal (other than robustness that supports survival and reproduction). And what evolution builds is never an incomplete system, precisely because there is no specific goal that it would have to meet to make it complete.
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
Crashfrog writes: So, exactly in what sense is it a "FACT" that our nerves are dependent on our bones for survival? For one thing, your blood needs your bones. Do your nerves need blood?...can you live without your bones?...will your nerves survive if you die?
Crashfrog writes: you need look no farther than the nearest pregnant woman: I am talking about independent organisms...and you wonder why I don't like you?...I am really holding back here...Lord give me strength...
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ICdesign Member (Idle past 4826 days) Posts: 360 From: Phoenix Arizona USA Joined: |
please refer to my last private message to you
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
For one thing, your blood needs your bones Earthworms have blood but no bones. How do you explain this discrepancy with your "FACTS"? Or is this just about how I know so much more than you that I can't see "the truth" that no organism without bones could ever possibly survive or exist?
I am talking about independent organisms.. These organisms are independent, once they're born. But an organism's systems don't develop during its independent adulthood, they develop during its gestational period, in egg or womb, as the organism follows a genetic program of development. If an organism hasn't completed that program of development then it either hasn't been born yet or has died (and been expelled from the mother, if that's relevant.) If you want to know how an organism's organs and systems develop, then you're necessarily looking at the prenatal, gestational phase of the organism's lifestyle, because that's where evolutionary changes to body plan and function by genetic mutation are actually enacted.
..and you wonder why I don't like you? You've taken into your mind the deluded notion that I'm trying to make fun of you or make you feel stupid. Nothing could be further from the truth - I'm trying to share my knowledge with you. The fact that you continually spit into my outstretched hand is disappointing, mystifying, and (if I may) does not speak well to your character.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You mean "The Lord has shown my heart that your fate has been sealed and to stay clear of you so this is the last I have to say to you." that one?
What does that have to do with you learning the answer to the question you raised? Do you want to learn how life evolves? Let me try to help you. As a first step, what happens to a critter that is born with incomplete systems that are essential systems? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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