The evidence for design and a designer - AS OF 10/27, SUMMARY MESSAGES ONLY

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How do you know that life's purpose is to live?

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Because even if life came from evolution or creation, every organism instinctively works to survive from birth. If time and energy are devoted almost entirely to living, then this is the primary function of life, to LIVE.

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This example has the misfortune to actually include an item that we all know was designed. Kinda steals the thunder away from your challenge

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Hahaha, thats the point. To take something that is designed, and explain why you know it is designed. Don't jump in, I want to hear what the Dr. orders.

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Also, i noticed you haven't responded to my last post on the previous page. Are you just conceding the point, or have you missed it?

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Missed it, or skipped it. From the sounds of this post, I skipped it.

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Lemmings? Heroin addicts? Suicidal people? All counterpoints.

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Lemmings absolutely. They are required to work extra hard due the the extreme temperature conditions they live in.Heroin unbalances the natural thought process of the mind. But it's funny. Heroin addicts still eat...Ask anyone who has tried to kill themselves and failed if they want to live. And those that succeed don't count, because they're dead, HAHA.Just because an individual doesn't understand the function, does not change the primary function.Many animals are born with defects that can alter their minds or physical abilities. If one does not seek out food, they die, and those that do, live. Still making the primary function of life, to LIVE.

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This is a correlation without any mechanism hinted at.

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I have no idea what you just wrote, but it sounds like you grabbed a science dictionary and typed some big words.Why is my statement a logical fallacy?

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In other words, we live so we can live. The drill drills so it can drill. Fire burns so it can burn.

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A drill left running uncontrollably is not serving a purpose, only performing a function. The same is true for the fire. Fire is not alive, and cannot direct itself. Neither is the drill. Both can be used for function by intelligent people though.You honestly have no idea what to say, do you? Just saying random stuff about fires and drills. Your just off in the twilight zone looking for people to respond to your nonsense.LIVING things have purpose and function, don't write back about your drills, cars, etc. They all require an intelligent user to have purpose and function. They also far exceed your purpose.

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As you wish. Its not that difficult.

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If it's not that difficult, then why didn't you answer the question.

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That tends to happen when you tell someone "GOTCHYA!" Not sure why....

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Probably because your catchphrase is used prematurely, and you say random things until people can't keep up with the topic anymore. You're like the Joker from the batman movies. No one knows what you're talking about but you.

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Method 1:
-Turn the watch over. Look at the name on the back.
-Call the company, ask them if they made this watch with the provided serial number.
-Conclude that the watch was human made.

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Okay, go call evolution quick and see if they are responsible for life today. I'll wait right here...Getting a busy signal? Next.

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Method 2:
-Look at the face of the watch.
-Make the reasonable assumption that only humans have the ability to work in such detail, and more importantly have created a number system.
-Assume that lettering doesnt naturally occur in nature
-Conclude that because this looks like a watch youve seen before and it has lettering unique to the human race, it was made by humans.

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I'll do a tiger.-Look at the DNA strand.
-Make a reasonable assumption that only God has the ability to work in such detail, and more importantly have created complex code system.
-Assume that striping does not occur randomly, but has a specific purpose.
-Conclude that because this tiger looks like a tiger I have seen before and it's striping is unique to tigers, it was made by God.

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Method 3:
-Look at the band of the watch.
-Assume that the treated leather is like all the other treated leather youve seen.
-Assume treated leather and stitching is unnatural.
-Assume humans are the only ones who treat leather and make it shiny.
-Conclude that the watch was human-made.

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First, who is to say the band is made of leather, or for that matter that there is a band at all? It could be a pocket watch. Nonetheless, leather is nothing more than cow skin, that has oil applied to it. Is it naturally impossible to find a strip of leather that has oil on it, anywhere in the world at any time, naturally?-Look at the fur of the Tiger
-Assume that the fur is like all other fur from tigers you have seen.
-Assume that striping of fur is too complex to have happened naturally undirected.
-Assume God is the only one who could know what the eyes of a Tigers prey would and wouldn't be able to see, and that color was irrelevant.
-Conclude that God made the Tiger.

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Method 4:
-Break the watch. Look at the insides.
-Assume that no other animal species has the ability to work metal.
-Assume that quartz and batteries don't self-assemble themselves in nature.
-Conclude that the watch was made.

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First, who said the watch had batteries?-Kill the Tiger, and look at the insides.
-Assume that no other being has the ability to create something this complex.
-Assume that Tigers don't self-assemble themselves in nature.
-Conclude that God made the Tiger.

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Method 5:
-Look at your watch while looking at the strange watch.
-Notice that the difference between the little hand moving is about the same, assume that the concept of a second is therefor shared between the watches.
-Assume your watch was designed.
-Assume the concept of a second is unique to humanity.
Conclude the watch was made.

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-Look at two tigers.
-Notice that the way they move and act is about the same, assume that the concept of instinct and survival are shared between the tigers.
-Assume the Tigers were both designed
Conclude the Tiger was made.

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But the evolutionists claim that life was not designed. Our claim is that there is no firm we can telephone.

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I agree completely. There is no one who was there, no historical documents hinting to it. Just interpretation of data from experiments, that hint. So I have one, hint that is. Stop calling evolution science, if it's foundation is based on hints.

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Getting a busy signal? Then we are right. It's if you ever get through that we might be wrong.

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So if God answers prayer, then you are wrong?

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The rest of your nonsense is the same. About the fourth time you wrote it, didn't you start to see the problem?

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The only thing that concerns me is that you, and many others in this forum conclude that complexity and co-dependances of the diverse life came from simplicity.

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How is that in any way different from a human being?

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Be specific.

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It wouldn't. Actually, what one person sees as being complex (physically speaking) another may not. It's a matter of opinion as to what people consider more or less complex. A car looks very simple from the outside, as does a house, because you can't see the internal parts working together for specific purposes.If you asked a mechanic and a carpenter which was more complex, each would probably favour those that they understood better. Everyone knows that physical appearance has little to know bearing on complexity however, so it's irrelevant, but his point, I believe, was to show that one could assume trees to be simple.

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Irrelevant is what they are.

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So now we have gone from chemical origin being irrelevant (earlier in the thread), to DNA origin being irrelevant. Is the origin of anything relevant these days?

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If you have DNA, you already have information.

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And if you don't, you don't. And at one point, we didn't. So by your own admittance, DNA does not exist.

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Even a snowflake contains information.

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The same information as water, which again, has no logical explanation of origin to this point.I think you are missing the point of evolution. It explains lifes natural origins...

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When you have magical poofing as your primary mechanism it is a bit hard to stand on your own as a science.

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Abiogenesis?

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What they are hoping to do is tear down all competing theories

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It's hardly a competition. We both have difficulty explaining the beginning of life. After that, ID fits perfectly with what is observed today. That animals tend to adapt into their environments, rather than evolve to higher beings. Even after Abiogenesis, your ToE has gaps so large it makes the grand canyon look like the crack in the sidewalk out front my house.

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How are you measuring complexity? Please, by specific.

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How do you measure earth? Can't answer it? Hmm. Thats because it's stupid question. The aspects of earth far exceed one value. But I'll assume you ment genetically.The total amount of nucleotide sequences that produce useful, functional information that better an organisms chances of survival. I would exclude 'junk' DNA.

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By that definition all life can be considered simple and thus not needing design.

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He is saying that without knowledge, everything can be understatedly simple. Charles Darwin himself made this mistake, because little was known about microbiology in his time. As science advances, so is the knowledge that that tree is not simple, but amazingly complex.

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Evolution is science.

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"Noun 1. scientific fact - an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true"
Scientific fact - definition of scientific fact by The Free DictionaryMy question:Who observed evolution?

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Whereas the mutations that we can observe demonstrably improve organisms.

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You make it sound like mutation drives life today and that all mutations help the organisms that obtain them. You couldn't be more wrong. 99.9% of all documented mutations are HARMFUL to the organism.Care to have a race? You see how many examples of mutational advantage you can find in 24 hrs. I will do the opposite.Go.

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And you are ludicrously mistaken.

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As usual.

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Translation - I have no counterarguement, and now I look dumb.

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DNA has formed through natural and unguided processes.

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My DNA is from a natural process, my parents boning.

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What makes you think it has not?

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I just said, it did. I have explained where my dna came from, it came from my mom and dad, no pun intended.I think the question is, how did DNA originate? I just jumped in here to goof off.

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However, the origin of spaghetti (for example) is not relevant to the theory of gravity (for example).

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And the origin of biological information is spagetti. Gotcha.

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I might go further and call it very odd.

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Agreed, we may need a new theory that tells how life began but excludes origins.

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You ... don't know ... why water ... exists ... ?

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*The same information as water, which again, has no logical explanation of origin to this point.*Do you see a WHY in the above statement?

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No it doesn't.

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So Charles Darwins book "The Origin of Speces", was a spelling error. All this time. Who knew?