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Author Topic:   Doesn't Natural Selection lead to Specified Complexity?
Panda
Member (Idle past 2092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 99 of 138 (619790)
06-12-2011 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by SavageD
06-12-2011 12:04 PM


Re: A call for clarity
SavageD writes:

It is unlikely that you would find a river of dna (Deoxyribonucleic acid) for example, such things aren't exactly found in our natural environment.


I thought I would point out that plants have DNA so, although you wouldn't find a river of DNA, you would find a forest of DNA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 12:04 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 12:33 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 138 (619795)
06-12-2011 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by SavageD
06-12-2011 12:33 PM


Re: A call for clarity
SavageD writes:

Panda writes:

SavageD writes:

It is unlikely that you would find a river of dna (Deoxyribonucleic acid) for example, such things aren't exactly found in our natural environment.

I thought I would point out that plants have DNA so, although you wouldn't find a river of DNA, you would find a forest of DNA.

True your gonna find within plants, however your not exactly gonna find it within the natural environment laying about on the ground somewhere in great abundance now would you.


Sorry.
I thought that plants were part of the natural environment.
I must be mistaken.

So...are plants not natural or are they not part of the environment? (Or both?)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 12:33 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 1:01 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 107 of 138 (619799)
06-12-2011 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by SavageD
06-12-2011 1:01 PM


Re: A call for clarity
SavageD writes:

Panda writes:

So...are plants not natural or are they not part of the environment? (Or both?)

Plants are found within the natural environment therefore, by all means plants are natural in that sense. Though some of the materials (dna for example) of which they are comprised of, are by all means unique to the environment.


It seems that you are saying that plants are natural and part of the environment, but plant DNA is not natural or part of the environment.
This makes little sense to me.

Would this also mean that plants are not 'designed', but their DNA is?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 1:01 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by SavageD, posted 06-12-2011 2:46 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 112 of 138 (619823)
06-12-2011 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by SavageD
06-12-2011 2:46 PM


Re: A call for clarity
SavageD writes:

No, it would mean that plant is there as a result of an intelligent designer. DNA isn't found in the environment in the sense that you cannot look within a rock formation, river or air and say hay look I found dna here. DNA is found within a plant, yes, the plant is found within the environment, yes, however dna cannot be found outside the organism, or rather it isn't found within the natural environment.

Simply saying dna is natural because plants are natural does not cut it as that would be a, truism, it goes much deeper than that.


No, I would say that DNA is natural because it is made in nature - by nature.
If that is a truism, then why are you disagreeing?
Maybe it would help if you could tell me how you define 'natural'.
This might help clear up the confusion.

SavageD writes:

Take a clay cup for example....Clay can be found within in a lot of places in the environment, not only within the cup, but outside it as well. (a mountain for example)


Take a clay mountain for example....Clay can be found within a lot of places in the environment, not only within the mountain, but outside it too. (a cup for example).
I am really not seeing how you are differentiating between a cup and a mountain, apart from your premise that "cups are designed". But that would make your argument circular.

SavageD writes:

Intelligent agents usually create new (or unique) materials in an environment (metal, silk etc.) and they may use these new materials to create objects, a car & spider web (silk) for example.

Because the plant also fits within the scope of a designer (intricate & interconnected parts, unique materials etc) it is highly likely that it was created by an intelligent agent.

Or rather it is highly likely that an intelligent system was ordained to produce such creations, as plants depend on other life forms to survive.


Since these rules may only sometimes apply, how do you tell when they are applicable?
What do you measure and how do you measure it?
(The answer to 'How do you measure it?' is vital.)

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : stuff


This message is a reply to:
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