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Author Topic:   ID taken to the end
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 62 of 97 (596445)
12-14-2010 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Livingstone Morford
12-14-2010 6:11 PM


Re: Strawman
Your argument is one large, intricately woven straw-man argument — and it is a straw-man that I am constantly seeing on this forum, used by both creationists and Darwinians. That straw-man is how most of the people here are defining intelligent design. Intelligent design holds that certain features of the biological world are more adequately explained by an intelligence rather than a mindless process. This is the theory of intelligent design. Intelligent design does not define the designer, and as such your statement doesn't ID dictate that a child with a liver disease was put here on purpose by the great designer is irrelevant to the theory of intelligent design. Detecting the work of an intelligence in a biochemical system simply cannot tell us who the designer is. For all we know, the intelligent designer or designers are extinct by now. From the standpoint of detecting design in biochemical systems, the identity of the designer is simply irrelevant.
As Nuggin's OP never mentions the identity of the designer, it is both comical and hypocritical that you should have prefaced this nonsense by whining about "one large, intricately woven straw-man argument".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Livingstone Morford, posted 12-14-2010 6:11 PM Livingstone Morford has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 91 of 97 (596627)
12-15-2010 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Taz
12-15-2010 9:33 PM


Re: Strawman
I think you've missed Nuggin's point.
(1) A thing of certain complexity cannot create another thing that is more complex than itself.
No, his argument doesn't depend on that, just on the proposition that anything that designed life on Earth must be more complex than, for example, a prokaryote.
(2) The designer IDists are referring to started out as less complex than the least complex life on earth and remained less complex than the least complex life on earth.
Not necessarily. But if IDists were to claim that started out simple and evolved to become more complex --- complex enough to design life on Earth --- then his point is that then the IDists have practically given the whole show away, since they have always claimed that the creation of ordered complexity is exactly the sort of thing which needs a designer and which cannot evolve. To maintain that the designer itself evolved is to admit that a designer is not necessary (and that evolution is sufficient) to explain the very phenomenon for which ID purports to provide an explanation.

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 Message 90 by Taz, posted 12-15-2010 9:33 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Nuggin, posted 12-16-2010 3:18 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 97 of 97 (596662)
12-16-2010 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Taz
12-16-2010 7:38 AM


Re: Strawman
One's a biologist. The other is a theologian/philosopher.
This has not prevented William Dembski from becoming a prominent IDer, since to achieve that dubious eminence biological expertise is not a prerequisite and might indeed be considered a handicap.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Taz, posted 12-16-2010 7:38 AM Taz has not replied

  
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