Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,924 Year: 4,181/9,624 Month: 1,052/974 Week: 11/368 Day: 11/11 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   ACI versus EPA: What happens when you put non-scientists in charge of science issues
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 9 of 46 (636996)
10-12-2011 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
10-11-2011 8:00 PM


In the oilfield business, we use flyash (= "poz" or pozzolan) all the time in with cement for cementing the pipe in wells into place. One important thing to note is that the flyash actually reacts with the cement over time, so that it pretty much becomes one entity with the rest of the sidewalk or cement sheath after a year or two. And its use can make better, more water-resistant concrete that just Portland cement can.
Second, yes, I agree that poz probably contains some dangerous stuff. After all, you burned some stuff you dug out of the ground to make it. Cement, on the other hand, is made of stuff that you dug out of the ground and burned. Different stuff, yes, but limestone and clay can have toxic chemicals like barium in them, just like coal can. And given a choice between handling cement or flyash bare-handed or bare-nosed, I will take flyash. I've done both, and never been "scalded" by flyash like by cement. Cement is much more alkaline.
The difference, I think, is that cement is made with the express intent of it being the product for sale. Flyash is leftovers from making electricity, so it is "waste."
There is a product, generically called cenospheres, that has been in the oilwell market for 25 years or so that is also getting more common in construction. It is made by dumping flyash into water, and skimming off the portion that floats. (A decent percentage of those little sphere in Frako's post above are hollow, and rather astoundingly strong.) I'm not even real sure where I would look to determine whether cenospheres are classified as equally hazardous as the poz that sank - but my bet is that it's "safer" in one set of regulations somewhere, only because it is purpose-made like cement is.
(Why use cenospheres, you ask? So you can make strong cement that weighs 10 pounds per gallon instead of 14 or 15. That can be important in lots of applications.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 10-11-2011 8:00 PM Taz has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 18 of 46 (637022)
10-12-2011 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by crashfrog
10-12-2011 8:40 PM


Re: A matter of state.
But concrete is permeable to water in many cases. What's the possibility of heavy metals in the fly ash component of concrete moving into a mobile water phase?
FWIW, one of the main things fly ash does to concrete/cement is to make it less permeable to water. And you're only talking about a millidarcy or so permeability to start with in normal construction cement anyway. Yes, heavy metals could leach out, but not near as quickly as they would from loose flyash in a landfill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 10-12-2011 8:40 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 765 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 20 of 46 (637024)
10-12-2011 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Taz
10-12-2011 8:49 PM


Re: A matter of state.
Fly ash has been quietly used in concrete mixes since the 20s, and probably long before that.
Natural pozzolan from volcanos is very similar to flyash (except that it probably has a different set of toxics in it) and was used by the Romans to make all those aqueducts two millenia ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Taz, posted 10-12-2011 8:49 PM Taz has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024