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Author Topic:   who was this 70s researcher who questioned evolution?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 30 (640795)
11-13-2011 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jimiwa
11-13-2011 9:53 AM


" . . . I think it had to do with genetics and evolution . . . "
Hi jimiwa, and welcome to the fray.
I heard about a researcher of the 1970's. He came to the conclusion through his research, and he was the leading researcher in his time in his field, I think it had to do with genetics and evolution, that it is possible that Darwin's theory of evolution is false.
There have been several people I've heard about that expressed some reservations regarding strict Darwinism, and which have been misquoted or misrepresented by creationists as doubting the truth of evolution. This includes developmental biologists, a field that involves how embryos develop into mature organisms, and where environmental effects (chemicals, temperatures, etc) can alter the development. The results of such effects are not passed in the DNA, yet they do affect survival and reproductive success.
You can also look through the lists of names compiled by various creationist and intelligent designists of scientists who doubt evolution.
See A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism - Wikipedia for a discussion of same (including the analysis of the statement used).
What you may have is most likely a statement that some aspect of evolutionary theory is not a complete explanation for the diversity of life as we know it. For instance"
. . . that it is possible that Darwin's theory of evolution is false.
In a strict sense Darwin's theory was that natural selection was the cause of some variations being more successful in passing on hereditary traits to offspring, and we know that this is not the only mechanism involved: it's not so much that it is false, but rather incomplete as a explanation of all the evidence. The theory of evolution, however, is not limited to just natural selection.
Evolution is the change in frequency of hereditary traits in breeding populations from generation to generation in response to ecological opportunities, and this includes several mechanisms, one of which is natural selection. We know that these processes and mechanisms occur and cause changes in the frequency distribution of hereditary traits, and thus that evolution does in fact occur in the world around us. Evolution has been observed to actually occur, including speciation and the formation of trees of hereditary traits by descent from common ancestors.
The Theory of Evolution is that the processes and mechanisms of evolution are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it.
This is an interesting case because it could be used as an example to break the ice for people who don't believe in evolution because he was not motivated by religious beliefs, he came to this belief solely by his research, which to an agnostic/atheistic scientist would be a more effective way at convincing them.
It is pretty hard to convince someone with an open mind that something demonstrated to actually occur is false.
Then, after such people realize that there's someone not motivated by religious beliefs that came to question evolution, they may have more room in their mind to come to a level of faith or be more open to the possiblity of creation.
Proving X to be false does not mean that Y is any more likely to be true. The problem with creationism is that it does not explain the facts of the diversity of life as we know it, not that evolution is a better explanation.
Enjoy.
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jimiwa, posted 11-13-2011 9:53 AM jimiwa has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by sfs, posted 11-14-2011 7:30 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 30 (641055)
11-16-2011 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by sfs
11-14-2011 7:30 PM


changing probability?
Hi sfs,
This thread doesn't look likely to go anywhere interesting, so instead I'll challenge the above assertion. All other things being equal, proving X false does mean that Y is more likely, assuming X and Y are alternative possibilities. More specifically, if new data show that X is impossible, but do not distinguish between Y and any other possibilities, then the posterior probability of Y is p(Y|data) = 1/(1-p(X)), where p(X) is the prior probability of X being true (i.e. the probability before the new data arrived).
Curiously, I was not talking about probabilities.
As Y is either true or false, regardless of how many other explanations exist, the probability for Y being true is unchanged.
Disproving evolution does not make creationism more likely.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by sfs, posted 11-14-2011 7:30 PM sfs has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 30 (641057)
11-16-2011 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Coyote
11-14-2011 11:12 PM


Re: Stephen Jay Gould?
Hi Coyote,
You don't suppose they are referring to Stephen Jay Gould, based on creationists' quote mines?
Or Kurt Wise? Kurt Wise - Wikipedia
Neither are biologists (not that this fact matters to creationists).
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 11-14-2011 11:12 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by caffeine, posted 11-16-2011 4:32 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 29 by dwise1, posted 11-16-2011 10:38 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 30 by Dr Jack, posted 11-16-2011 3:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 26 of 30 (641058)
11-16-2011 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Taq
11-15-2011 11:29 AM


Schwartz?
Hi Taq,
The only person I can think of that fits this description is Lynn Margulis ...
Or someone (of several) in developmental biology that said something to the effect that environmental effects are more important than natural selection.
Someone like Jeff Schwartz?
"Sudden Origins" by Jeffery H Schwartz
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Taq, posted 11-15-2011 11:29 AM Taq has not replied

  
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