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Author Topic:   A Deteriorating State :: Morality in the 21st Century
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 65 (401603)
05-20-2007 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by nator
05-20-2007 7:05 PM


Re: Morality in the 21st Centurty
quote:
What's the difference between a liberal and religious fundamentalist?
Usually education.
So, as one becomes more educated, one also becomes more liberal? Will you back up that that is usually the case?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by nator, posted 05-20-2007 7:05 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by nator, posted 05-20-2007 10:39 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 65 (401608)
05-20-2007 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
05-20-2007 7:23 PM


Re: Morality in the 21st Centurty
So, what characterizes all liberals and religious fundamentalists such that they can be considered one and the same?
Defining your terms would be welcome.
Not all liberals, just liberals in general. Liberal, conservative, religious fundamentalist, atheist, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. are all systems of morality/beliefs. Agnosticism is the method of logical evaluation of only those things known, with no assumptions, upon which science, truth, and knowledge are built.
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by nator, posted 05-20-2007 7:23 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by nator, posted 05-20-2007 10:52 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 65 (401624)
05-20-2007 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by nator
05-20-2007 10:39 PM


Re: Morality in the 21st Centurty
As people become more educated, they become less likely to be religious fundamentalists.
That wasn't your original argument. Nor was it the argument against which I was arguing in my previous post.
In addition, you've shown nothing, other than that education causes people to be less likely to believe in a literal Genesis account and more likely to accept something they were probably unfamiliar with before they began their education anyway”evolution.
Remember that on-line book by Dr. Bob Altemeyer, PhD called The Authoritarians that was mentioned in the Book Nook a little while back? He is a research Psychologist and he has shown in his work that people who tend to score high on his Right Wing Authoritarianism (RWA) scale showed a drop of 15-20% after completeion of a 4-year college education. RWA correleates strongly with religious fundamentalism.
Does this mean they are more likely to be left-wing authoritarians, or does it show that they are less likely to be right-wing authoritarians?
A couple of other points:
Are people who accept evolution and reject a literal Genesis liberals?
What's the benefit in being a liberal over a religious fundamentalist?
This is off-topic, so one of us”probably me”should start a new topic, since this is an interesting conversation worth continuing, at least I think.
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by nator, posted 05-20-2007 10:39 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by fallacycop, posted 05-21-2007 1:30 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 51 by purpledawn, posted 05-21-2007 7:35 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 52 by nator, posted 05-21-2007 10:10 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 65 (401773)
05-22-2007 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by ICANT
05-22-2007 12:51 AM


Re: Morality in the 21st Centurty
I think the fanatics on both sides, God exists and No God exists are those destroying the morality in the world.
BINGO!!
@Y'all”
When I said that liberals and religious fundamentalists are the same thing, I meant in terms of deteriorating morals”which is the topic of this thread . Just like an Islamic fundamentalist, a Hindi fundamentalist, a Christian fundamentalist etc. are all grouped as 'religious fundamentalists' and called 'crazy'; so too can we group liberals and religious fundamentalists as 'extremists/fanatics' in recognizing their equal levels of moral deterioration.
So @ Schraf, can you tell me”in regards to the topic”how a liberal is less/more morally deteriorated than a religious fundamentalist? If you cannot show any difference, then, within the context of this thread, they are the same thing”as I originally said .
Sorry, ICANT, that I posted all that stuff to Schraf in your message; I hope you will forgive me .
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ICANT, posted 05-22-2007 12:51 AM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by kuresu, posted 05-22-2007 2:26 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 60 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 7:25 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 62 by purpledawn, posted 05-22-2007 8:02 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 65 by purpledawn, posted 05-23-2007 7:23 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 65 (401847)
05-22-2007 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by nator
05-22-2007 7:12 AM


Re: Morality in the 21st Centurty
The liberal says, "I think people should be free to choose their own morality as long as it doesn't negatively affect others."
The fundamentalist says, "I think my morality is the only correct one and anyone who thinks differently is evil/going to hell."
The liberal and the fundamentalist both think that the other should see it 'their way.' It's this kind of arrogance for their position that causes wars, etc. Neither side is ready to accept how the other side thinks and just move on with their lives. And Agnostics cannot do anything about it, because as far as they're concerned, it's not their place to sway people away from the arrogant mindset-or any mindset, even if it will one day bring the world into destruction.
How are we supposed to get the message of mutual respect across, when we keep acting like sex has no consequences that can't be dealt with?
I really don't know who you think teaches this, but it certainly isn't groups like Planned Parenthood or other mainstream pro-legalized abortion/sex education organization.
Bolding added. Notice, Schraf, she said ACT, not TEACH. And, in the sense of acting-movies, the media, etc.-the consequences of sex, such as STDs, pregnancies, etc. are often joked about, or dealt with in semi-intriguing ways that would almost make one desire to be a part of all the action. In terms of ACTING, there is a view portrayed that any problem resulting from sex can be dealt with in a Hollywood fashion.
Groups that preach a message of chastity IMO are being very moral, so long as they aren't legally forcing anyone's hand.
I'd say that the only way such groups could teach chastity and be moral is if [they] also provide full disclosure during their presentations of the lack of effectiveness of their programs.
That makes you as guilty of legislating morality as are the pro-chastity gang. Tell me, why is it 'wrong' not to tell the gang of ineffectiveness of the program, and 'right' to tell them? Why is your position so much better?
Jon
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 7:12 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
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