Is Evolution a Radical Idea?

I was referring to those fields of science that are concerned with origins. Actually, I made it up.

I'll make this brief. I'm not trying to be cryptic, but I don't want to stray off topic. The Fall is an explanation of human suffering. Not only did man fall but nature fell too into what we see today. Before the Fall there were no diseases, birth defects, etc. So the Fall is necessary to justify God's ways to man.Man came late in the evolutionary process. For billions of years before that, life forms battled each other on a killing field in the pre-Fall world. This was so because life was set up in such way that the only way creatures could survive was by feeding off other life forms. What manner of God would produce such a system? A cruel God, not the God of Christianity. One might counter that our morality is subjective, so our moral judgment against God is no evidence of cruelty. But if our moral judgments are subjective, then the concept of sin is meaningless. Hence, evolution and Christianity (of the traditional sort) do not mix.

I was referring to God's cruelty, not the animals'.

It is cruel to cause innocents to suffer. Pain is pain no matter who or what is feeling it.

I meant animals are morally innocent, iano. They are not capable of sin.

God was around and it is God who is responsible for that killing field that we call nature.

I'm talking about animal pain. Animals--at least the higher animals--feel pain, I would assume.Now I don't know if fossils can tell us if, say, a dinosaur had a developed nervous system enough to feel pain. Maybe somebody knows.I'm just going by what I've seen of modern animals, and they seem capable of feeling excruciating pain to me.God is responsible for that pain.Edited by AdminJar, : No reason given.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Evolutionism tells us that God is not needed.

I meant the origin of man, the origin of species, the origin of life, the origin of the universe.ABE: all involve evolution in the loose sense of that word._Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

Yes, but evolutionism has got something to back it up.

Evolutionism does have an answer. Big Bang theory combined with quantum physics. The universe "begins" 14 billion years ago, from nothing. Just Pouf! and it's there.(I find this totally incomprehensible, but anyway I've heard the argument--read it on this forum.)

I'm an evolutionism defender on this thread. I'm certainly no creationist. Let me attempt a definition of this term I made up:The development of the universe can be seeing as following a pattern that is evolutionary in nature. What happened after the Big Bang is analogous to what happened during abiogenesis which is analogous to what happened during biological evolution. First there was the cosmic soup which is analogous to the primordial soup. Out the cosmic soup evolved various discreet space objects--stars, planets, and so forth--which eventually evolved into more complex systems--solar systems.During the primordial soup days, chemicals gradually evolved into more complex chemicals and finally into some amino acids out of which life came.During the first stage of life, simple one-celled organisms evolved into complex multi-celled organisms, and so forth.We can see the similarities in these processes all of which are inevitable, maybe, and at any rate natural changes through the eons.No room for God.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

That evolutionism explains reality so well that it is devastating to religion.

There was no first cause. The universe appeared without a cause.

That's an interesting comparison, but evolutionism is not about survival of the fittest, only about gradual change. And of course it has nothing to do with human culture.