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Author Topic:   Morals without God or Darwin, just Empathy
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 184 (380875)
01-29-2007 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Taz
01-25-2007 3:45 PM


Re: Some more agreement
Personally, I'd push the button.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 01-25-2007 3:45 PM Taz has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by nator, posted 01-29-2007 9:47 AM Jon has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 184 (380889)
01-29-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by nator
01-29-2007 9:47 AM


Re: Some more agreement
:eek:

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 Message 26 by nator, posted 01-29-2007 9:47 AM nator has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 184 (381504)
01-31-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Larni
01-30-2007 4:51 PM


Re: Mundane? Yes. Survival-driven? Not convinced.
Rape is a crime about power. When the victim "goads" the rapist on, the rapist feels that he/she is getting the power from the act--the very power they committed the act in order to gain. If the rapist is resisted by the victim, it begins to cut into the amount of power and control that the rapist has over his/her "subject."

Given what I've said--that rape is a power crime--it would make sense that a rapist (seeking power) would give up where he/she could not get that power and only follow through in the instances where he/she can. So, when a rapist decides to carry through with the act, he/she makes a logical decision based on what will get him/her the best result, i.e., more power. I fail to see any bit of empathetic feelings in a decision like this.

J0N


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Larni, posted 01-30-2007 4:51 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Larni, posted 01-31-2007 3:49 PM Jon has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 184 (381630)
02-01-2007 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Larni
01-31-2007 3:49 PM


The Path of Least Resistance
To experience this sense of power one must 'know' that the victim is powerless. This requires empathy.

This doesn't require empathy! All the rapist needs to concern him/herself with is whether or not there is resistance. When an animal of prey goes after the helpless injured deer before trying to take down the healthy and strong one, do you think that's empathy? The animal (like the rapist) is looking for the path to their goal (food for the animal, power for the rapist) that will offer the least resistance.

If the animal attempts the deer likely to put up the greater amount of resistance and it gets away, the animal doesn't get its meal. If the rapist attempts to rape the individual which is puting up the greatest amount of resistance, he/she doesn't get his/her power (or at least not as much). The only real difference here is that the rapist can't decide which individual will put up the greater amount of resistance until he/she has already begun the act--though this can be true of the animal as well.

J0N


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Larni, posted 01-31-2007 3:49 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by anastasia, posted 02-01-2007 11:50 AM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 98 by Larni, posted 02-02-2007 6:58 AM Jon has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 184 (381689)
02-01-2007 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Stile
02-01-2007 12:22 PM


Re: Empathy does not equal Good
Empathy is not a synonym for good or for moral. It is a tool, an ability which can be used to help discern good from bad, moral from immoral.

But then you must show us how "moral" = "doing what is good for others." I believe that "moral" = "doing what we think is best," and how we arrive at that conclusion may be by taking a number of things into consideration, but not just the feelings of others.

J0N


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Stile, posted 02-01-2007 12:22 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Doddy, posted 02-01-2007 10:35 PM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 02-02-2007 7:14 AM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 101 by Stile, posted 02-02-2007 8:53 AM Jon has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 184 (381888)
02-02-2007 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Stile
02-02-2007 8:53 AM


Re: Empathy does not equal Good
To be entirely honest, I seem to have misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. This said, I seem to have no problem with what you've used to define moral. :) ;) :laugh: :cool:

J0N


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Stile, posted 02-02-2007 8:53 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
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