Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   are "stand your ground" laws license to kill?
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 822
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 25 of 40 (720031)
02-19-2014 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
02-19-2014 3:04 PM


Re: Encouraging Stupid Attacks
RAZD, there is no evidence that Zimmerman attacked, but there was ample evidence that he was attacked. Granted he was stupid and after he had called the police he should have stayed in his truck. Having your head bashed against the sidewalk does give you the right to defend yourself. The evidence is that he was on his back and shot upwards.
Dunn has no defense. The issue here is that the prosecution got greedy and didn't put a lesser charge of murder for the jury to consider. They just couldn't agree that it was premeditated.
Note that the Zimmerman case did not invoke the stand your ground defense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2014 3:04 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2014 8:57 PM kjsimons has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 822
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 27 of 40 (720108)
02-20-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
02-19-2014 8:57 PM


Re: Encouraging Stupid Attacks
You said
In both Zimmerman and Dunn cases they instigated the confrontation, they attacked and they were on the offensive, then claimed that it was defense.
In english, you pretty much directly said they attacked. You preface it by saying they instigated it but then followed up with the 'A' word. Unless you were referring to Travon/the kids in the SUV when you said "they attacked". But that makes no sense because in the Dunn case there is no evidence that the kids did anything of the sort.
And I stand by my claim that Zimmerman didn't invoke the stand your ground defence. Google it and see. This was a local story, taking place not more than five miles from where I'm sitting now. Believe me we were all inundated with constant coverage, local and national.
Zimmerman to argue self-defense, won't seek stand-your-ground hearing | CNN
Despite backlash, 'stand your ground' laws did not apply to Zimmerman case
Edited by kjsimons, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2014 8:57 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2014 8:01 PM kjsimons has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 822
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 31 of 40 (720207)
02-20-2014 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by RAZD
02-20-2014 8:01 PM


Re: Encouraging Stupid Attacks
No, I don't think it was but it doesn't matter. As I said, the defense did not invoke the stand your ground defense, which is all I claimed and that much is factual. Zimmerman had his back on the ground with Trayvon banging his head on the sidewalk so a case could be made for self defense straight out. If it could be proved that Zimmerman had attacked, not just followed or possibly confronted Trayvon, then perhaps Zimmerman might have been convicted of at least manslaughter.
My personal feelings about this case is that it is a tragedy. If Zimmerman wasn't packing heat he might have stayed in his SUV and if Trayvon wasn't so young and full of testosterone he might not have confronted Zimmerman.
Just as an aside, early on the national media did a very poor job of presenting this case which skewed what actually happened. The local media did a much better job.
I just had one more comment about your earlier post where you said that the police had told Zimmerman to stand down. What actually occurred was that the police dispatcher had responded to Zimmerman's statement that he was going to follow Trayvon on foot and she responded that "OK, we don't need you to do that". This is not the police telling him to "stand down". I might be picking nits but this is the sort of glossing over of the facts that caused this event to snowball in the national coverage like that his was a white on black issue when Zimmerman self identifies as Hispanic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2014 8:01 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by RAZD, posted 02-20-2014 10:29 PM kjsimons has not replied
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2014 4:42 AM kjsimons has not replied
 Message 34 by Theodoric, posted 02-21-2014 1:52 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024