Marxism vs Socialism vs Communism vs Totalitarianisms

I'll start with Tangle's Message 412: Jesus wouldn't carry a gun because He came with a special mission to save the world, but that doesn't mean He would oppose the carrying of guns for self-defense in this fallen world where we are still vulnerable to all kinds of dangers and threats against us. That is, we still live in an Old Testament world although the New Testament reign of grace is now available to believers. In the Old Testament fallen world of today there are plenty of reasons to be armed against dangers to ourselves and our families. Even war on a national scale is sometimes necessary, although a nation imbued with Christian principles, as the US was in the past, would go to war only for the best reasons of self defense or defense of others, which we did in WWII, and I think the arguments in favor of the American Revolution are also biblical. This question poses a false dichotomy. The Bible, which is of course God's word, and Jesus is God, supports capitalist principles of individual work to support one's own by the use of whatever abilities and talents one has. To this extent it supports free enterprise. The Virtuous Wife of Proverbs 31 maybe says it best: she works hard to take care of her family, and sells the extra linen that she makes, goes out and buys a field and plants a vineyard. This is basic free enterprise in action.She also considers the poor and helps them.One of the Levitical laws is that the owner of a field of grain must leave the corners of the field unharvested so that the poor can take what they need from there. Those on the other hand who deprive the poor or take advantage of them, of widows and orphans for instance, or by demanding more collateral for a loan than they can afford and so on, are condemned.Greed is condemned in the Bible. This is a condemnation of those who hog the resources of the land, "the means of production?", so that others get no benefit from them.In Luke 12:15-21 Jesus tells a parable about a rich man who expanded his storage to accumulate more of the produce of his land and then considered himself wealthy enough to sit back and enjoy it all. But God "required his soul" so that he couldn't enjoy it as he planned, and Jesus' point is that spending this life in accumulating wealth for your own benefit is not a good idea. He goes on in verse 22 to say It's more a teaching about spiritual values, trust in God, of course, than about economic matters as such, but it demonstrates the biblical view of material accumulation.So: There is a support for hard work and for personal right to the fruits of your labor, whether it brings in barely a living or great wealth. At the same time the Bible gives moral principles for taking care of those who have less than you have. There is no notion whatever of REQUIRING the wealthy to give up what they've earned, but there is certainly a strong condemnation of hoarding and selfishness. Then there are the commandments against coveting and stealing. These apply to rich and poor alike. To demand that the rich provide for the poor is stealing, but they are strongly commanded to be generous.Jesus also said "The poor you shall have with you always" which certainly implies that He had no socialist program to offer.I don't see any role in any of this for government telling people what to do with their earnings.

That's the best argument against self defense of course, and clearly we are to obey it individually. However, note that the context is not about life-threatening injury. In fact being slapped on the cheek isn't even a physical injury, it's merely an insult. Also, you can perhaps deny yourself self defense, if only your own wellbeing is at stake, but how do you justify denying your protection to your children? I don't see that Jesus is requiring this of us. Perhaps a spiritual titan could do this, trusting God to take care of them, as John Bunyan did in prison, realizing he wouldn't be there to work to support them. But again, this isn't about danger from violence. Remember too, that Jesus never told the Roman soldiers who came to Him to give up their profession.

I defended my points biblically. Sounds like you are relying on your personal feelings rather than a standard, really a sentimental nonbiblical false portrait of Jesus.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Oh but I do, and have said so many times.

Oh but I do care about the wellbeing of Muslims and Socialists. Their wellbeing consists first of all in being set free from their false beliefs.The Kibbutzim were not based on Marxism, they were a benign sort of socialism which does exist here and there. But obviously they served their purpose and Israel no longer needs them.I don't support "Capitalist Oligarchs" I've said that capitalism at certain levels needs to be restrained by law. I DID say that, perhaps you didn't notice. It remains gthe best economic system, but nothing's perfect on this planet, we do need laws to restrain the fallen nature. The problem with Marxism is its utter unreality, and its belief that you can tinker with the human heart to make it conform to some pieinthesky false idea of how to run things. Leave humanity alone and design your laws to keep the fallen nature in check. That's what the Constitution aimed at, but Marxism magnifies the fallen nature for its own chosen class and promotes the oppression and murder of all those who disagree with it. It's evil to the core.

No, but Stalinism is one of the inevitable outcomes of Marxism. The killing of your opponents, dissidents, etc., is the natural outcome of Marxism. Some have seen the connection and left the movement. The whole Marxist utopian nightmare should be scrapped.

I'm also sure Marx wouldn't have liked Stalin but that's because he believed his own utopian fantasy, just as RAZD does.But the Inquisition was not the natural outgrowth of Christianity, but of the apostasy of papal Rome and its ambition to rule the world.

The fact that there are other evil governments and leaders has nothing to do with the fact that Marxism predictably tends in that direction.

Also prophesied...