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Author | Topic: Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
You do not seem aware that eye for an eye is a metaphor that means that like should be returned for like. Ghandi did not agree and neither did Jesus. So why are you not agreeing with both Jesus and Ghandi? If you do think that that saying is to be taken literally instead of as a metaphor, how would you deal with rape? Would you find a gay man to rape the man that raped you for instance? RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Coyote
That did not answer my question. Seems you like to quote your God as much as a bible thumper. The least you could do is quote an appropriate answer. RegardsDL
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It IS a metaphor fer cryin out loud. Or a Principle. Good grief. It is a perfect expression of perfect justice. As I said, it was most likely originally intended to put an end to excessive punishments. There is nothing wrong with the formula.
Jesus made it the basis for His instruction to His disciples for how we all should personally deal with injustices to ourselves. Back in Jacob's time, his sons went off and murdered a whole clan because one of the sons raped their sister. That's an example of the tribal "justice" eye for an eye would have corrected by some form of punishment fitting the crime. Jesus' teaching is NOT intended for the criminal justice system. Good grief. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
Yet God is supposed to return and put his law in place here. Jesus did not preach an eye for an eye and that has already been explained to you by ringo. You are quite cavalier with your poorly thought out answers. But let me continue to educate you of your own theology. Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Does that saying say that perfect justice is an eye for an eye? I ask again. If you are raped, should we find a big gay man to rape your assailant? If not, what penalty would you demand? RegardsDL
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are having a terrible time following the argument. I never said Jesus preached eye for an eye, He preached against it because He was preaching to individuals. People make the dumb mistake of thinking His preaching applies to the criminal justice system, so I've been answering that, since Jesus taught individuals and didn't address the powers that be, and in answering it I've had to defend the principle of eye for an eye as the perfect justice it is, and perfect justice is what the criminal justice system should aim for. Romans 12:21 is also for individual believers and not for the criminal justice system. Your thinking is so confused you probably won't understand this either but try.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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People make the dumb mistake of thinking His preaching applies to the criminal justice system, so I've been answering that, since Jesus taught individuals and didn't address the powers that be ... Quite so. What God said should by no means form any part of our legal system, except maybe the bits about being mean to gay people.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
What you do not understand is that an eye for an eye is not perfect for either a good theology or a good philosophy. It is garbage to either individuals or groups be they religious or secular. The murderer is not born a murderer. He is a product of all around him that have contributed to what he is and thus any culpability should be divided and that makes an eye for an eye overkill as it ignores all who have made him what he is. You, like your homophobic and misogynistic religion, have satanic morals and have no conception of what Jesus was actually trying to teach you. RegardsDL
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, what God said should and did have plenty to do with our justice system, back when it was rational and based on the Ten Commandments. Jesus was not speaking to the justice system but to individual believers. Eye for an eye is a principle of perfect justice.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are just not thinking, just as Gandhi wasn't, and most aren't when it comes to eye for an eye. So you think the justice system should turn the other cheek to the murderer? The death penalty is the perfect justice for a willful murderer seems to me.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
Yes I know. You ignore a lot of scriptures to maintain your hate. You have also given up your humanity. I am done with you here. RegardsDL
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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kbertsche Member (Idle past 2161 days) Posts: 1427 From: San Jose, CA, USA Joined: |
Greatest I Am,
You have spent many pages arguing with Faith about the relation of Christianity to the modern judicial system. I don't see how this relates to your contention that "Religions are fairy tales for adults." This issue (the relation of Christianity to the modern judicial system) is NOT a primary issue of the Christian faith. There is no unanimity on this among Christians. Besides the Catholic perspective(s?), there are three major Protestant perspectives on this topic. (Faith's perspective follows Calvin. While I agree with Calvin (and Faith) on many fundamental issues, on this issue I am more in line with Luther.) Even if you can prove Faith wrong on this secondary point, you have not proven that "Religions are fairy tales for adults." Instead of focusing on such secondary issues, why don't you focus on the primary, fundamental tenets of the Christian faith, or of all religions in general?"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." — Albert Einstein I am very astonished that the scientific picture of the real world around me is very deficient. It gives us a lot of factual information, puts all of our experience in a magnificently consistent order, but it is ghastly silent about all and sundry that is really near to our heart, that really matters to us. It cannot tell us a word about red and blue, bitter and sweet, physical pain and physical delight; it knows nothing of beautiful and ugly, good or bad, God and eternity. Science sometimes pretends to answer questions in these domains, but the answers are very often so silly that we are not inclined to take them seriously. — Erwin Schroedinger
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
kbertsche
True that we got sidetracked. I do not usually ignore moral questions as religions are supposed to be all about morals and Christian and Muslim morals are leading them to homophobia and misogyny and are obviously poor at best. As to proof that religions are fairy tales, talking snakes and donkeys should be enough to convince anyone with a brain. "This issue (the relation of Christianity to the modern judicial system) is NOT a primary issue of the Christian faith." You are correct on this. Christians will always choose secular law and never bible law as they know that bible law is garbage law and draconian at best. They are Christian but not that stupid. I can never prove Faith wrong to herself because she lies to herself. She has not really been addressing my questions. Just repeating herself as she has no real argument. RegardsDL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Greatest I am writes:
You keep repeating yourself but you're still wrong. What's the difference between altruism and love?
Altruistic acts can go only the one way. Love takes 2. Greatest I am writes:
You will know those you love by what you are willing to do for them. You will know who loves you by what they do for you. Love can go in either direction or both. You will know those you love and who love you by what you do for each other. Parents will do almost anything for their children whether the children do anything in return or not. Are you claiming that parents don't love their children?
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