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Author Topic:   Biological Reduction and Free Will
NosyNed
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Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 31 (171310)
12-24-2004 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by sidelined
12-24-2004 12:40 PM


Conscieousness as a sub component
My tought would be that "mind" (which is discussed elsewhere) is an emergent property of many brain processes.
We might be conflating mind and consciousness here or even consciousness and "I". If consciousness is just another one of the brain processes that go on then it may well be separate (as indicated by those experiments) from something like "will".
Let me see if I can unconfuse myself here:
We seem to be stuck on thinking of ourselves, the "I" as being a little homonucluum sitting in control of everything. Perhaps like a hydralic shovel operator sitting just behind our forehead and pulling levers etc.
We then use a word like "mind" or "consciousness" and have back in our toughts a picture of this little guy in control. Perhaps this is not the right picture. Perhaps the guy who is pulling the levers is NOT the guy who sits in the box up front and can see what is going on.
Maybe how minds are more like an ant nest. All the different parts react to the various stimulae and do what is needed. Then we have one addtional property. We have something that is aware of the whole thing -- the consciousness. But it is only "being aware" not actually doing anything.
Now I'm sure that this is wrong and even if it contains a grain of truth it would by no means that simple. One would expect that the consciousness does have some feed back into the various parts that are 'doing' things. That feed back is where something that might be called free will would come in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2004 12:40 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by lfen, posted 12-24-2004 1:47 PM NosyNed has replied
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 12-24-2004 2:07 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 14 of 31 (171322)
12-24-2004 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by lfen
12-24-2004 1:47 PM


Re: Conscieousness as a sub component
But, interestingly to me is that this position is that of the classic nondual Heart of Awakening Gita that Consciousness is the witness but not the doer.
Very interesting.
Two things I note. The first is I'm not sure what you intended by the "whole thing" but it's not the whole brain. There a lot of brain functions that we don't seem to ever be consciously aware of except perhaps in the sense of the final result. Blind sight is one and some other pathological states demonstrate aspects of this.
Yea, I wasn't being very careful. Clearly not the "whole" whole thing, just the overall stuff.
Care to elaborate on that last sentence?
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 12-24-2004 02:05 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by lfen, posted 12-24-2004 1:47 PM lfen has replied

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