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Author Topic:   The God Of Sex
Paboss
Member (Idle past 177 days)
Posts: 55
Joined: 10-01-2017


Message 42 of 63 (841450)
10-13-2018 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
10-05-2018 8:20 AM


Re: correction of fact
Faith,

The law on rape, like any other biblical law, is perfectly coherent with the cultural context where it was written. One can understand that ancient Israel and surrounding peoples where patriarchal and saw women as property. But this only goes to show how these laws were human creation and not divine.

An omniscient and all benevolent god would have done a much better job. He would have come up with laws that would cause admiration as much then as now as in a million years time. But all we can see is horrible mundane laws coherent with those old times.

Now, what is it about sexuality that has Abrahamic religions, if not all religions, so obsessed?

Edited by Paboss, : Typo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 10-05-2018 8:20 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:07 AM Paboss has responded

  
Paboss
Member (Idle past 177 days)
Posts: 55
Joined: 10-01-2017


Message 46 of 63 (841458)
10-13-2018 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
10-13-2018 4:07 AM


Re: correction of fact
Faith writes:

God always works within the existing culture

Then he won't have any issue with the sexual freedom we enjoy today.

Faith writes:

and as far as I know He didn't ask you how He should craft His laws.

No, He actually did. I told him: "Just don't be an asshole", but he thought I meant homosexuality was wrong. I guess it's my bad.

Look, all I'm trying to say is if we are his creatures, even after the fall he would have made us capable of at least perceiving a little glance of goodness in those ancient laws. After all, he wants to teach us his good ways and save us all, does he not? But no, what we find in the biblical laws we are considering here is just plain disgusting.

Faith writes:

And I see no obsession.

But Abrahamic religions are obsessed with sexual freedom. I guess is just the need to control every aspect of human culture so that we preserve the status quo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 4:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 1:23 PM Paboss has responded

  
Paboss
Member (Idle past 177 days)
Posts: 55
Joined: 10-01-2017


(1)
Message 57 of 63 (841501)
10-13-2018 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
10-13-2018 1:23 PM


Re: sexual freedom?
Faith writes:

He isn't writing laws for today, it's our job to use His Law as a standard for our laws. Which should certainly be understood to indicate that He will punish us for our so-called "sexual freedom," for the broken homes and the hurt spouses due to the adulteries, for the children without one or the other parent due to the irresponsible fornications, and also for the consequent economic deprivation. And of course for the enormous abortion rate which is a direct consequence of it all.

However, if you look at History, sexual repression hasn't really helped to prevent those problems, has it? Just look at catholic and JW's record of pederasty. Sexual repression only fucks up people's minds and they end up doing things they would not if they had developed their sexuality properly. Now, I know you don't follow any of those denominations, so please don't come up with bullshit arguments that they are not the true church of Christ. I'm just trying to show you a human example of what sexual control leads to. I bet some church authorities of your denomination have their little dirty secrets of their own. What really helps is sexual education; something that church authorities are not that eager to support. By they way, did you know that abortion rates are lower amongst secular persons?

Faith writes:

Not to some of us who see His laws and His punishments as expressions of His goodness to us in protecting us against our own fallen selfish stupidities. King David wrote the psalm that says "Oh how I love thy Law" (and King David was a big sinner too) and although you obviously have no appreciation of it, some of us do, even many of us who used to think the idiotic way you do. His Law is deep wisdom and, to anyone who can understand it, deep love and mercy too.

Wanna talk about idiocy? How about making excuses for a mediocre god who doesn't have the guts to point out something that is wrong just because the thing is too ingrained in the culture of the people? What good is he then? How's that for idiocy?

Now that you mention King David, remember the incident with Betsheba? when he had sex with her and then sent her husband to a sure death in the battlefield? Do you remember what did God do about it? He killed the baby that was the result of that relationship. An innocent baby. And your god who is supposedly against abortion took it against an innocent baby. That's the kind of stupid things your god does that makes one wonder how could an omniscient and benevolent being come up with that.

Edited by Paboss, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 10-13-2018 1:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 10-14-2018 3:11 AM Paboss has responded

  
Paboss
Member (Idle past 177 days)
Posts: 55
Joined: 10-01-2017


(1)
Message 59 of 63 (841595)
10-16-2018 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
10-14-2018 3:11 AM


Re: sexual freedom?
Faith writes:

I don't think we need any explanation for sexual sin. We're fallen creatures who gravitate to sin like moths to flame and we also have the dear devil to help us out if we lag a bit.

Do you know why moths fly towards the flame? They evolved the ability to use the rays emitted by celestial bodies to guide themselves. Since these bodies are very far, the rays they emit are parallel to each other. But the fire is close, so its rays diverge from the point of origin and this confuses the moth, making it spiral towards its death in the flame. It is a side effect from an otherwise good orientation system.

Something similar happened to us. Humans, like other animals, evolved the instinct of attributing agency to natural phenomena; from a thunderstorm to a gentle breeze rustling through the grass. This was helpful in the wild as it prevented our ancestors from falling prey to lurking predators. But it had also its side effect. People began explaining everything with some external agency and this gave birth to religions. Some smart people figured they could control populations by pretending to be the recipients of the messages from the gods. Others went forward and twisted the human nature, converting everything we are as humans into wickedness. They realised how powerful is the sense of fear and guilt to control people's minds and discourage any challenge. That's how Christianity grew so powerful and that is why it is so important to control the guilt and fear of people through sexual repression, among other strategies of mind control, like fear of Hell.

Faith writes:

Oh rave on, you'll fall into your own pit eventually.

I may rave on, like you say, but I also ask questions. And my question for you is what a homosexual Christian is supposed to do. Pray for understanding, or for a "cure"? They are torn between, on the one hand, their sexual nature, which they didn't choose; and in the other hand their belief which they didn't choose either. They live with the sense of guilt, of unworthiness, fear of being shunned by society and fear of retribution by God, because no matter how hard they try, they simply cannot get over their sexual inclinations. Is a miserable way to live which has led many to end their own lives; for which, to add insult to injury, they are to be punished in the afterlife.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 10-14-2018 3:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 10-16-2018 8:45 AM Paboss has responded

  
Paboss
Member (Idle past 177 days)
Posts: 55
Joined: 10-01-2017


Message 63 of 63 (841659)
10-18-2018 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
10-16-2018 8:45 AM


Re: sexual freedom?
faith writes:

The same thing an adulterous Christian is supposed to do, or an alcoholic Christian or any Christian with a strong bent toward a particular sin: repent of it...

You're putting a lot of things there in the same bag, which do not belong together. Unlike adultery or alcoholism, homosexuality doesn't cause any damage to others or oneself.

Faith writes:

repent of it, yes pray for strength to give it up, give it up. There is nothing else you can do with sin but mortify it.

Prayer makes no difference. The likelihood of a prayer being answered positively is in accordance with probability laws. The effectiveness of prayer has been studied and demonstrated to have no bearing in the results.

Faith writes:

If a person is really a Christian though, it should be understood that homosexual sin is like all the rest

That's the problem. Since they are Christian, they do think it is a sin. So they see their own nature as sin, and that makes their lives miserable. Their lives get ruined by baseless prejudice. If you don't agree with this, provide a reasonable explanation for what is wrong about homosexuality.

Faith writes:

If you believe all that hooha you wrote about how religions "evolved" there's no point in asking about Christianity anyway.

Do you have a better explanation? Does it involve a certain fantastic evil being who invented all the thousands of religions this world has seen, except for one, which so happens to be the dominant religion in the country where you were born?

And I don't have to believe in Christianity to ask questions about it. Christianity is a real thing; I just don't believe in the supernatural and unsubstantiated claims it makes.

Edited by Paboss, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 10-16-2018 8:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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