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Author Topic:   new visitor with a logic question
defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 57 (61734)
10-20-2003 5:34 AM


[Thinking...]
Yes, we Christians believe in the concept of eternity past and eternity future. I have not read the website referenced at the beginning, but cautiously wondered if you might like to know our viewpoint. Infinity can have a starting point, of course. You can start from a point in time, i.e. right now, and continue on forever and ever. This infinite time extends both forward and backward from the present, so there is no starting point. In the terms of Earth, naturally, there was a beginning when God created it, and Earth only extends backwards (as well as only extending forwards) in time a finite number of years. Since this universe exists in a finite timeline, somebody had to start it up.
However, God exists outside of time and space, from eternity past right into eternity future. Since there was no beginning to eternity past, God had no 'beginning' according to our perception, and therefore was not created. Similar to what the big bangers say, there would be no causation for eternally existing Persons.
See?
[Wipes up puddle of drool]

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Rei, posted 10-20-2003 11:33 AM defenderofthefaith has not replied
 Message 34 by sidelined, posted 10-22-2003 4:06 AM defenderofthefaith has not replied

defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 57 (62085)
10-22-2003 4:48 AM


The eternal question, sidelined. Although God exists outside of time and space, He also is present all over the universe, and manifests Himself everywhere - even talking to people like any normal human being. I have experienced His love many times. Furthermore there's always the evidence of God manifested in creation - which is what we're debating on this forum - such as the bat's sonar, which allows it to create a 'picture' without sight of everything around it and analyse the shape of even the smallest insect so that it will catch only food and nothing inedible. God also shows Himself in such designs.
If God had to "become" or "be created", He'd have to have a beginning before which he wasn't created. But as I said, He's existed for an infinite amount of time - eternity - and has not had such a beginning.
If there's one thing Occam's razor could liberally be applied to, it is the alternative to God - a cosmology by which matter appeared from nowhere. Since matter exists in this universe and is subject to loss of energy, matter cannot have existed for eternity. Matter must therefore, unlike God, have had a beginning. Who created matter, and why did it decide to 'expand' to form a universe? How did a tiny point of matter become this entire massive cosmos?

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Rrhain, posted 10-23-2003 10:11 AM defenderofthefaith has not replied
 Message 39 by sidelined, posted 10-23-2003 12:35 PM defenderofthefaith has not replied

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