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Author
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Topic: Re-Problems With The Big Bang Theory
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 59 of 273 (471412)
06-16-2008 6:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by ICANT
06-14-2008 1:08 AM
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Re: Update Your Model
ICANT,
ICANT writes:
I like these assumptions without explanation. But I can't insert God without proving He exists.
There is evidence for the BB but however there is no evidence for a God.
ICANT writes: It seems like you are trying to tell me there is no problem with the BBT. But I keep finding scientist that say there is a lot of problems with the BBT. There are issues with a lot of scientific theories but those theories are based on "tangible evidence" however "supernatural phenomena" is not. Science tries to explain the universe using matter that we can observe. To bad we could not hold a conversation in the chat room sometime. Edited by Force, : edit
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by ICANT, posted 06-14-2008 1:08 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 67 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 9:58 AM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 60 of 273 (471414)
06-16-2008 6:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by IamJoseph
06-16-2008 4:30 AM
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Re: Update Your Model
IAJ,
IAJ writes: The universe is not expanding, but rather, the original point is becoming larger. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I bet this will make quote of the month.... Please provide references for your claim so I can read all about this phenomena. Edited by Force, : edit
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by IamJoseph, posted 06-16-2008 4:30 AM | | IamJoseph has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 61 of 273 (471415)
06-16-2008 6:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by IamJoseph
06-16-2008 4:30 AM
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Re: Update Your Model
IAJ,
IAJ writes: The universe is not expanding, but rather, the original point is becoming larger. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I bet this will make quote of the month.... I would love to see some evidence for the rest of your claims in post 54.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by IamJoseph, posted 06-16-2008 4:30 AM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 80 of 273 (471624)
06-17-2008 4:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by IamJoseph
06-16-2008 11:03 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
IAJ, You really need to provide evidence for your claim that the universe is "finite" because your claims are a lot of nothing without it.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by IamJoseph, posted 06-16-2008 11:03 PM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 81 of 273 (471632)
06-17-2008 4:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 67 by ICANT
06-17-2008 9:58 AM
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Re: Update Your Model
ICANT,
ICANT writes:
I keep hearing there is mountains of evidence. I have not seen any yet that is not questioned.
You fail to understand the point my friend. The big bang model was not summarized until there was evidence to devise it. I also want to mention that if the BB model fails there will be a new model to replace it and it will be based on all the current evidence of the time. The difference between Religion and Science is that Scientific theories/models are based on actual evidence but however such is not the case for Religion.
icant writes:
We have about 230 posts left, put it on the table.
I will be happy to learn about the BB with you =).
ICANT writes:
Could you explain where I can touch this evidence. That is what tangible means isn't it. No.
www.dictionary.com writes:
Tangible: 1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial. 2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine. 3. definite; not vague or elusive: no tangible grounds for suspicion. 4. (of an asset) having actual physical existence, as real estate or chattels, and therefore capable of being assigned a value in monetary terms. -noun 5. something tangible, esp. a tangible asset.
Please reference the entire meaning above but also pay attention to part 2.
ICANT writes:
One is where did the little pea sized universe come from? The answer I am given is it just exists and then expands. No reason for it existing. No reason for it to start to expand. It just does. Where did it come from? Best answer, "We don't Know." Along come Inflation to fix the problems. Guth says inflation starts with a smear and it doubles a few hundred times and then expands into the universe as we see it. Where did the smear come from? It just is. Then comes the scalar field. Where did it come from? We don't know we have not found one yet. I put forth questions that scientist say the BBT can not answer and is incompatible with. The only answer to those questions is Inflation. Inflation is not even to the theory stage yet. Therefore it does not answer the questions yet. Will it answer the questions eventually? Maybe, maybe not. Until then the BBT has serious problems.
I can understand your frustration but however just because there is no answer to a question does not mean that a God did it. Science is based on evidence, as mentioned above, and as such the current Scientific understanding simply does not have enough evidence to answer all of our questions at the moment. Will Science understand this supposed "GOD" someday? it may but we have to wait for the evidence.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 9:58 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 5:16 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 83 of 273 (471636)
06-17-2008 4:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 82 by ICANT
06-17-2008 4:36 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
ICANT, It is my understanding that according to the BB model the universe is finite. I am trying to get IAJ to post references for his claims as he has a tendency to make wild ass assertions. I also want to mention that just because the Bible creation story supports a finite universe does not mean that this is what the authors had in mind. What I mean is that the authors obviously did not mention the words "the universe is finite" or even imply it directly. If the universe is claimed to be finite then that claim must be based on evidence. Edited by Force, : edit
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 4:36 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 91 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 6:43 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 86 of 273 (471656)
06-17-2008 5:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 85 by cavediver
06-17-2008 5:03 PM
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Re: BBT without Inflation
cavediver, fear can lead people in many directions =).
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 85 by cavediver, posted 06-17-2008 5:03 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 88 of 273 (471662)
06-17-2008 5:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 87 by ICANT
06-17-2008 5:16 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
ICANT, Science is more tangible than faith. Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit 2 Edited by Force, : deletion of mute points...
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 5:16 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 93 of 273 (471708)
06-17-2008 7:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by ICANT
06-17-2008 6:43 PM
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bbt
ICANT,
ICANT writes: But our earth should end in a ball of fire before the deep freeze gets here. I think the earths departure is scheduled for about 4 billion years. It is my understanding that you either have a deep freeze or a complete reversal of the universe. The scenario in which the earth burned would be due to a super nova explosion of the sun or galaxies colliding into each other due to the reversal of the universe. The universe is expanding but one day it may start reducing. Anyways.
Science may be more tangible to you than faith. But not to me, my Faith comes from experience. (I will leave it at that) I understand. The issue is that Science is revealing the Christian Bible to be mythological. Why result revelations to Christianity? Edited by Force, : edit
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 6:43 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by ICANT, posted 06-17-2008 7:36 PM | | Force has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 119 of 273 (471839)
06-18-2008 4:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by IamJoseph
06-17-2008 8:55 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
IAJ,
IAJ post 5 writes: The first problem is that most science views disregard or reject the universe as a finite realm Force post 80 writes: You really need to provide evidence for your claim that the universe is "finite" because your claims are a lot of nothing without it. IAJ post 97 in respose to my post 80 writes: You have to conform your thoughts there is not a single hint the uni is not finite, and this is the conclusion of the greatest scientists, maths and sciences.
I noticed you contradicted yourself in posts 5/97. P.S. Please provide evidence the universe is finite. Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : change
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by IamJoseph, posted 06-17-2008 8:55 PM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 120 of 273 (471848)
06-18-2008 5:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
06-15-2008 10:10 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
ICANT, The "BBT" describes how the universe started and the IT describes the structure and potential changes to that structure of the universe. The BBT does not depend on inflation. If you can observe the universe expanding over time that means originally it was smaller hence BBT. My understanding above may be wrong but I believe it is correct. I am still learning about cosmology though so if I am wrong please forgive me. =-).
ICANT writes:
I think you said it best several months ago when you said we need a new theory. I am still satisfied with mine.
The issue with yours is that it has errant scriptures, contradictory creation narratives, and mythological based stories.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2008 10:10 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 122 by ICANT, posted 06-18-2008 6:18 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 121 of 273 (471850)
06-18-2008 6:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 109 by ICANT
06-18-2008 8:19 AM
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Re: BBT 2.0 Already
ICANT
ICANT writes:
I do think that they are all blinded by the devil and can not see the truth when they are looking Him in the face everyday.
What does this have to do with the BBT?
ICANT writes: Science is scrambling to find ways to make their theories match the evidence God wrote down in His manual of the Universe. That manual is what science studies. Science studies the natural phenomena that it can observe. There is no limitation to the natural phenomena, that Science studies, as long as it can be observed. Science has observed evolution which contradicts the creation story in the Torah. Science has observed an expansion in the universe which however does not contradict the creation story in the Torah. So, again, Science studies what it can observe. If Science observes phenomena that contradicts the creation story in the Torah then let it be what it is.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by ICANT, posted 06-18-2008 8:19 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 123 of 273 (471854)
06-18-2008 6:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 122 by ICANT
06-18-2008 6:18 PM
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ICANT, Errant manuscripts: http:// EvC Forum: Inerrant Bible Manuscripts? --> EvC Forum: Inerrant Bible Manuscripts? Contradictory creation narratives: http:// EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 --> EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 Mythologically based: Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible
ICANT writes:
They both say Inflation solves the problems listed in the OP which the BBT can not. The density problem alone without inflation would be very bad for the BBT.
I have already explained what the BBT describes "the origin of the universe" and that "it is expanding". I also have already explained that "inflation" describes "the structure of the universe". The BBT is fine without inflation. Inflation supports the BBT though. The density issue is not a problem with the BBT because it does not change the fact that the universe is expanding from a point which is what the BBT is all about. BOOM = EXPANSION..... Then inflation kicks in and explains the structure after the BOOM. If the universe implodes that still does not change the fact that once the universe expanded hence the BOOM = BIG BANG... Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit Edited by Force, : edit
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 122 by ICANT, posted 06-18-2008 6:18 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 136 of 273 (472145)
06-20-2008 4:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 129 by IamJoseph
06-18-2008 10:23 PM
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Re: Update Your Model
IAJ, you honestly do not understand the IT if you think there is no evidence the universe is infinite.
Thanks To believe in "Force" is to believe in Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Force, Agility, and Charm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by IamJoseph, posted 06-18-2008 10:23 PM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 144 of 273 (472212)
06-21-2008 12:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 143 by IamJoseph
06-21-2008 12:39 AM
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Re: Finite universe (again)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 143 by IamJoseph, posted 06-21-2008 12:39 AM | | IamJoseph has replied |
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