Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Uncovering a Simulation
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 19 of 118 (484775)
10-01-2008 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Agobot
09-30-2008 6:10 PM


evidence?! what evidence?
Agobot writes:
Evidence points heavily towards us being a part of a simulation.
I, for one, would be very interested in seeing this evidence.
In anticipation...

"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Agobot, posted 09-30-2008 6:10 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Agobot, posted 10-01-2008 6:42 PM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 43 of 118 (484886)
10-02-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Agobot
10-01-2008 6:42 PM


Re: evidence?! what evidence?
Put it under a scanning tunneling microscope and have a look - you'd see individual atoms. Zoom in and it disappears. There is no more phone, no building blocks of matter.
You just need a more powerful microscope.
Now pull it off the microscope and it's still there, but if you return it under the microscope - there is no phone
Yes, changing observation distance and angle tends to produce odd illusions and effects, as any football fan in the country will tell you. What is your point?
What exists is the perception your mind creates.
Non-sequitir. If your phone obeys every single law that applies to matter, the fact that you cannot 'see' beyond a certain scale is absolutely irrelevant.
A perception i am almost sure is created by a simulation
"I am almost sure" never weighed-up heavily as evidence for anything, sorry.
there is nothing physical in a simulation, just a perception of "physicalness" that fades away under closer examination.
Your argument appears to be a mixture of the 'argument from incredulity' fallacy and 'God of the gaps' type-of reasoning. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean we live in a simulation. If something appears to be odd doesn't mean it's made-up or fake.

"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Agobot, posted 10-01-2008 6:42 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Agobot, posted 10-02-2008 6:18 PM Legend has not replied
 Message 45 by Agobot, posted 10-03-2008 6:52 AM Legend has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5035 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 51 of 118 (484968)
10-03-2008 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Agobot
10-03-2008 6:52 AM


Re: What reality?
How is that irrelevant? Explain, what are your arguments that the building blocks of our "reality" are irrelevant?
My argument is not that the building blocks of our "reality" are irrelevant. My argument is that the fact that we can't 'see' beyond a certain scale of building blocks is irrelevant..
Decoherence says what you percieve as reality is just a very very small, tiny fragment of all there is, you just don't have the apparatus to see all the states of matter/particles
Which is what I said earlier : you just need a bigger microscope!
QM tells us reality is not what we think of it.
QM tells us what reality is at a certain scale of matter. You and I as persons and don't operate in the quantum world, we operate in the gravitational and electro-magnetic world and your mobile phone behaves perfectly predictably in this world.
If and when there is a solid unified theory of everything under which your mobile exhibits some 'odd' behaviour your argument may hold some water. Even then, chances are that your observations will be a result of some holes in our knowledge rather than evidence of living in a simulation.
There is a third theory ...Then there is a fourth theory
The theories you mention are tentative to the extreme, more of hypotheses really rather than theories.
....you will discover that there are experiments which support the proposition that entangled particles "know" each of the others is present even when the distance separating the two is further than light can travel...
which in itself violates the theory of relativity!
There is a lot to be discovered but if QM and scientists are telling us that reality is not what we think of it, why would you go head against the wall and claim they are not right?
While in the same sentence you admit that there is a lot to be discovered you still expect me to believe what they claim as 'gospel' ?!
So, as per the previous paragraph, who do I believe: Einstein and Hawking or Schrdinger and his cat ?
When we have an adequate undestanding of quantum states in order to manipulate them robustly enough to repeatably produce something tangible like, say, a quantum computer then we may start thinking about simulations. Until then your argument is more of a 'Simulation of the Gaps' proposition, IMHO.
Edited by Legend, : spelling

"We must respect the law, not let it blind us away from the basic principles of fairness, justice and freedom"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Agobot, posted 10-03-2008 6:52 AM Agobot has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024