The Law Of Contradiction

I could certainly agree on that point. I call bluff. If that were really the case then the majority of atheists would seek to disprove all religion with the same venom they reserve for Judaism and Christianity. That clearly isn't the case. Aside from which, I suppose that on some level, all of religion is unfalsifiable. That leads us back to why anyone would care either way, especially those who maintain a relativistic and 'tolerant' viewpoint. This is the intolerant face of the 'new tolerance' and the absolute rule of relativity. Okay...? What is illogical about it? I guess we'd better start there before we can get into the deeper aspects of the argument. Because that's what atheism is founded upon. And a house divided cannot stand. If the foundation be destroyed what shall the unbeliver do? Its not???Atheism1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
2. Godlessness; immorality.Pretty straightforward, wouldn't you say? If you claim to be an atheist then excuse me all over the place for jumping to a conclusion that your belief mirrors that of its very definition. First of all, the definition is as clear as could be. Its completely abstruse. Secondly, placing the prefix "A" does not always follow its normal course. Case in point, asexual doesn't without sex, it means self-replication. Just like placing the prefix "in" does not always follow a negative. Case in point, 'invaluable' does not mean that it has no value, it means that its so valuable that it no price will suffice. Would you say that this view best represents your beliefs?Agnostic1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.It sounds to me that you are an agnostic, which, in my opinion, is far superior than atheism because of its objectivity. Okay, its dropped. I'll continue speaking with other people who keep engaging me. I won't force you to keep speaking with me anymore.*removes gun from Youko's temple and holsters sidearm*

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

I don't think they all believe in God, what i think, is many, if not most, feel that twinge of doubt within their heart of hearts. If this isn't you then don't worry about it. But if its not, then getting angry over it might slightly infer that this isn't entirely true. Draw your own conclusion. I don't believe in flying-purple elephants, do you? Would it make you angry if I believed in them? Does it make you angry that you don't believe in them? Does it matter either way? I doubt it. So what difference does it make to the atheist whether or not I believe in God? What compulsion exists in certain atheists to actually become angry over it, unless there is something in them that recognizes that its not as silly as they might like to portray, for perhaps, posterity among their peers? That's all I'm saying. There is no rational reason to suppose they exist. Now you say, aha, that's how I feel about your God, Nemmy! That would be all fine and good if your disbelief simply ended there. Here's the difference: I'm not mad about it. I have no reason to get all flustered over it. I would just be concerned that they are worshipping false gods. I don't believe in Zeus, and I could engage in long debates on why I don't believe in Zeus, but why spend all that energy on a Deity that I don't believe in the first place? Do you see the difference? If I spent all this time trying to destroy the notion of Zeus, wouldn't that be a tip-off to you that somewhere in the dusty recesses of my mind, that I was concerned that Zeus might actually exist?I'm generalizing here. If I'm not talking about you, then let it roll off your back.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

That isn't my definition, its Dictionary.com's. If you don't like the defintion write a letter to them. And even then, its not like they invented the English language and neither did I." If you change the meaning of a word, then you are trying to change the meaning of the world." -Ravi Zacharias

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

Because I see it as a destructive heresy and because I believe that people's lives are at stake. My reason is philanthropy. Is the atheist able to claim this? Naw, pop psychology is overrated.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

No, not if it comes up. My question is, why is being an atheist so exilerating that you'd want to? If you are here primarily for the scientific aspects then this doesn't really apply you. I didn;t mean lying, as much as I meant conealing one's inner-beliefs. Again, I was generalizing, not singling anyone out. Would you say that most atheists don't feel the twinge of belief every now anf again? It would be silly to assume that theists don't occasionally feel the twinge of disbelief. I'm just asking honest questions here. Fair enough. I know where you stand. Nothing more will be directed towards you. I don't believe that ID encompasses any given ideology. Its an inference that some ubiquitous, higher cognizance is at work in nature as opposed to a wholly random and purposeless force. Where does the objection lie within you? Because I didn't point the finger at or allude to EvC's atheists as the culprit. I've said many times that I was generalizing and not pointing any fingers towards anyone. As for substantiating my claims that I've been treated poorly at certain times by certain individuals, I'm not about to look on every single thread I've ever been on to show you that. I don't care enough about it. I was merely responding to someone who asked me that question specifically. You have the option of believing me or not believing me. It doesn't matter to me either way because that's a side issue. Impose their beliefs on others? The theory of evolution hasn't set up a monopoly in science, especialy when it is but one aspect of biology-- theoretical biology at that. That's ridiculous. If ID didn't make a lick of sense, it could have never reached the level its attained if it were some psuedo-scientific and pernicious belief. If you knew anything about the debate you wouldn't make such baseless assertions. Evolution is fighting for its last breath, be it good or bad. But please don't hate on ID because it conflicts with your personal beliefs by undermining the first tenet of the Humanist Manifesto.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

No Jar, you are in error. Here's the link:Atheism, not atheist....Atheism Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

quote:

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The mere fact that they spend inordinate amounts of time attempting to dissuade you in your faith coupled with the fact that many of them turn rabid against Christians speaks very loudly that there is still part of them that wants to believe, and in certain respects, do still believe.

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This what he quoted me saying. This in no way encapsulates all atheists. If you don't fit in that category, let it roll off of your back.Anyone that spends gobs of time attempting to refute a Deity seems counter-intuitive and ultimately pointless to me. Is it unreasonable that those that do might have some sort of inherent fear over the fact that it might be true? I'm beginning to think that certain people in here aren't understanding me. Irrespective of whether or not you agree with my view, is everyone understanding my premise?

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

quote:

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Why not just choose something arbitrary to get angry about? This leads me to believe that there is something in themselves that recognizes God as a threat. But a threat only comes from a fear that He might just exist.

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I'm sorry that you are so offended by this, but it really seems like common sense to me. If you don't believe in a Deity then why argue the point so ferociously? Wouldn't it be truly atheistic to just not acknowledge God either way? Again, I'm delighted that people feel so strongly about it, pro and con, because it tells me that they care about the subject. Its the apathetic and indifferent type that concerns me.What I have I said that is so egregious? That's my opinion. I figure anyone that preaches about tolerance, relativism, and unity so much could appreciate that I reserve the right to think as I see fit, so long as my views don't manifest into some sort of violent action. And that's not going to happen, so what's the problem? My gosh, you'd think that I just set fire to some people's houses?

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

Throttle back, you're getting frothy spittle all over my screen. What did the whales ever do to you? Here's the difference champ: I don't believe in Zeus but you don't see me developing a coronary over it. No, no, no.... you've got it backwards. If an evolutionists thinks it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be related to a nematode.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

The absolute phenomena concerning relativity... I like it. It should be a mantra emblazoned on a t-shirt. I'd buy one.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

So its perfectly normal for people to get angry over gods they don't believe in? This is what most people do? Most people come on websites to discuss how much they dislike the notion of a God that they don't believe in? Seems like a worthless endeavor to me. I guess I am captain bizarro then?Come on? Hook me up a little bit here. Is this argument really so silly? Are you saying that there is no merit to the discusion? Now, not liking ID and arguing against it, I can understand. But feverishly arguing against God is like me feverishly arguing against flying-purple elephants. Why would I care enough to even argue the point? I know the feeling. Do you get angry when a pyschologist does it? I'm not defining your belief or telling that you have to do anything. I presented an argument concerning some atheists. And I think I've supported a basis for that argument just on this thread alone-- or rather, my detractors supported the argument for me. Imagine, someone forcing you to come on a forum that contains aspects of theology only to force you to discuss matters of theology, when all you want to do is forget. What... has this.... world..... come to? That's like someone saying, "I'm trying to give up porn so I hang out in porn shops and strip clubs. How dare they tempt me." I was having a discussion with someone else about my personal beliefs right before I maliciously accosted you and forced you to engage me in a conversation.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

What would constitute imposition in your mind? I guess I could donwload pictures of my vehicle when it was 'keyed' because I have a 'Calvary Chapel' sticker on my car. What was I thinking? I shouldn't have imposed. I also suppose I could download pictures of my car that had a pint of urine and spit on the door because I have a Calvary Chapel sticker on the back window, if only I had taken a picture of the offense. What was i thinking? How dare I impose my beliefs?So, again I ask:Does that seem like rational behavior to you? We all might find oursleves thinking irrationally from time to time out of our emotions. And for the umteenth time, I'm not implicating all atheists. Many long-time friends of mine are atheists. We can discuss such matters like civilized adults. But there is a very large amount of atheists out there that act like I just kicked them in the face because I asked an important question, such as, 'why would you get so angry over something that you claim you don't believe in?' Ah yes... I'm sorry that I have accosted you and placed you in my God-lair where I incessently torture your eardrums with Scripture. The whole pity-party thing is wearing thin.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

Well, I don't know what more I can say about the argument I presented. I guess the atheist and the theist just have to be comfortable in their stalemate. Perhaps my counterparts posts have proved my point for me. I guess it doesn't really matter. The argument will trek on into infinity. That's interesting you just said because it reminded of a sermon I was listening to a couple of nights ago. "You keep mentioning God... What are you talking about?"Oops, something lost

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

Because I also have an, "Annoy a Liberal: Work hard and be happy" sticker too. I also have a, "I don't like war, but I think I don't like terrorists even more" sticker. I also have a few others concerning my affection for Jesus. Oh, who am I kidding? Its a propagandamobile. Its obvious that I've been vandalized over my beliefs, especially when driving down the street and we get honked at, and flipped off, and things thrown at us, people driving by shaking their head in dismay. When I look in my rear view mirror, I see people behind me screaming at me. LOL! Remember, I live in Portland, Oregon, which is easily a major west coast hub for atheism and a liberal playground, trailing just behind San Francisco and maybe Seattle. For however ecletic they portray the city to be, I sure do seem to be heavily outnumbered, especially on the westside. In Flagstaff, where some of the other vandalism occured, I just had the Calvary Chapel sticker. One could say that I got hit by random vandalism, but it seemed to happen an awful lot to be random. Arizona is typically considered a "red" state, but Flagstaff is the polar opposite.We went to see John Kerry in Flagstaff and was nearly beaten to a pulp, and then we went to the Bush rally in Phoenix and nearly got beaten to a pulp there too. Those peaceful hippies have funny way of showing their cosmic love. No, this seems to happen when at home or when I'm at the grocery store. Not too many drunk hooligans randomly targeting people just to be an a-hole I would think. That was hyperbole for effect. However, who ever did it sat that there a long time spitting. There was so much spit and urine. They must have been very dedicated to their cause.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

I love Snarfs! They're little, and blue, and they sing, "La-la-la-la-la-la...la-la-la-la-la... There is Papa Snarf, and... oh, wait. Those are Smurfs. Nevermind. Until Snarfs can demonstrate through their ancient writings how they couldn't possibly have known future events without some sort of Snarf revelation, I'll listen to people who talk about them, but remain skeptic. You have every concievable right to be skeptic. I don't deny your right. Snarfs are very reclusive little guys. They don't like alot of noise. I would say that they sound like loveable, huggable, kissable little fella's. I don't know every single aspect of where love comes from to know that I've felt it, to know that it exists, to know that I enjoy it. Its kind of like food. Ancient people probably had no idea what nutrition was. They probably didn't know about carbohydrates or protein, minerals, or vitamins, even still, they knew they felt better when they ate and understod that sustenence is a very important aspect of life. I don't need to know every single aspect about God in order to believe in God. Those are typically referred to as Deists. According to the Judeo-Christian God, YHWH, He created everything in six days, then He rested on the seventh. From then on, He intercedes on behalf of those who would call on Him. According to Deists, God created the atom on the first day, then He's rested ever since then.

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“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner