Source of biblical flood water?

Interesting commentary - where's it from?
They've got a few bits backwards: Applying electricy to water will break it up into the hydrogen and oxygen, not vice versa. Only if we skipped fourth grade. Alternativley, we could attribute it to (in plain english) the noise of the thunder knocking the drops of vapour together.This sounds like a version of the vapour canopy idea, which renders the pre-flood Earth looking a lot like venus does now - huge pressures and temperatures. Nice to see someone's still trying to make it work.I'd stick to the people who use "G-d", if I were you.

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

now, i've taken a couple geology classes, and i can't figure out what the hell you just said. the kind, shape, and size of deformations help indicate the speed. rock doesn't warp very fast. try it if you don't believe me. go out, grab a rock, and try to bend it. see how much progress you make. remember, jesus said you should be able to move mountains. i'll be rather upset if you can't bend a tiny little rock. size, and closed conditions. we're not so much concerned with "the greenhouse effect" as we are with "the RUNAWAY greenhouse effect." a closed system compounds its effects. i gave you a reference so you would actually read it. what is with you literalists and your fear of actually READING the bible?

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Genesis 6:6-7.

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And the LORD regretted that He had made man on earth, and His heart was saddened. The LORD said "I will blot out from the earth the men whom I created -- men together with beasts, creeping things, and the birds of the air; for I regret that I made them."

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the bible is an interesting book, you should read it sometime. oh, and notice he says he'll blot out the animals too? not just the wicked people.

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Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

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Eze 26:3 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves

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Eze 26:14 I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for the spreading of nets; you shall never be rebuilt

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Tyre Today
Tyre has a colorful souk (covered market) well worth exploring. Look for the Ottoman khan, or inn, just inside the market entrance. On a side street is the "Mamluke House", an Ottoman period residence that is being restored as a cultural heritage and information center by the General Directorate of Antiquities. Also in the souk area is a white, double-domed Shia mosque of great interest. Near the market you will see a busy fisherman's port, in Phoenician times referred to as the "Sidonian" port because it faced north towards Sidon. Walk along the port with the sea on your right and you enter the city's Christian Quarter, a picturesque area of narrow streets, traditional architecture, and the Seat of the Maronite bishop of Tyre and the Holy land. One medieval tower still stands in a small garden. A second one is visible under the little lighthouse. During Crusader times towers similar to these ringed the city.

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http://www.tourismlebanon.com/discoverlebanon_tyre.htmlet's stone ezekiel! rasputin? the one who tricked all of the royal ladies of czarist russia into having sex with him?but you missed my point. rasputin was rumored by MANY to have risen from the dead. seriously. so is elvis, jim morrison, andy kaufman. ever seen a zombie movie? zombies are a REAL phenominon, part of the voodoo religion. ever read romeo and juliet? juliet appears dead in the final act, but she's not. the point was not the accuracy of the claim, but rather that the claims were in fact quite inaccurate. excuse me? you want to tell that to spartacus's army of 6000 men who were all nailed to crosses on the road from capua to rome? in fact, not only do we know that they usually used nails, we know what kind of nails (7" triangular spikes) and the fact that they were held in place with rought wooden washers. victims were occasionally tied, yes, but only under the circumstances where they wanted an ESPECIALLY slow death, or just plain ran out of nails. disciples and books are different. heck, scientology has one conforming book. can't christianity? why do we need four that all say the same exact things down to the word, except in places where they say something totally different? seems a bit haphazard and nonsensical to be written by an all knowing deity. try that one next time you get accused of plaigarism in class. "but it proves the existance of god!" you're still gonna get expelled.if god were dictating, matthew, mark, luke, and john would be exactly the same. to the extent where they are referred to as different manuscripts of the same text, like the masoretic and septuagint. but they're not. they're different enough to indicate that they're not the same text, but the same enough to indicate that they copied from something. know how the first christian books were picked? evidently you don't. they took a poll of what was being used where, and included the most commonly used books, and all of the "dear abby" epistles the could. the requirement given by constantine was something to the extent of "it has to look pretty on a shelf." yes, but jesus was an actual incarnate being, made in the image of the father. don't believe me? look at the collosians verse you cited.

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Col 1:13 ...his dear Son:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

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Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

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you'd think THE TEN COMMANDMENTS would be relatively important, right? even if there are more like 14.dad comes first. then junior. that's what "father" means.

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Exd 33:20 And [God] said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

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even still, worshipping any image of god is still forbidden. to say a mortal being is god is blasphemy. plain and simple.

actually, my jewish tanakh omits it out of respect for the first commandment.for instance:

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Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

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vs

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-the divine beings- saw how beautiful...

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it has a problem assigning god sons, because in hebrew, what literally means "son" means "member of a family" in jacob's twelve sons. and so ben'elohym would mean "gods" or "other gods." no, i've just got 1337 5k1||z or something. (that's ok, try copying and pasting, it selects backwards too.) well, why should i recognize what you have to say if you can't even spell your own saviour's name right? jesus was jewish. his name was יְהוֹשֻׁעַ or yehowshua. i'll even accept joshua, since most jewish people are familiar with that way of anglocising that name. but his name was NOT jesus. if you addressed him during his life as that, he wouldn't have even recognized it. hebrew just doesn't have a "GEE" sound, and his name doesn't end "SUS."

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Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

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the bible says i should kill you. god's VERY picky about his name. i wonder why?This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-20-2005 09:22 PM

haha i like you already. or, like, the bible. i mean, it's really NOT that hard of a read, but he keeps seeming to miss things.i WILL give this debate to the first creationist who says that the water came from the holes in the firmament god made, because outside of our atmosphere is water.

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Interesting commentary - where's it from?

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Genesis 7 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

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Applying electricy to water will break it up into the hydrogen and oxygen, not vice versa.

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Maybe the writers meant that the electricy when applied to the gasses ("airs") would produce the water, must be, they had obviously heard of the process.
Now, a few more thoughts on that, since it was shot down so quick.
Let us look at the pre flood world, where, by some accounts, there was a lot more oxygen . Now, why would samples of this old atmosphere not register hydrogen, if there was a lot of that as well? It is lighter . Could it have been on top, or higher up? So, what seperates the O from the H ? How about dome natural fire suppressants ! Boron, and carbon. Just a moment...
The first few items on the periodic table. (1 hydrogen, 2 helium 3 lithium 4 beryllium 5 boron, 6 carbon 7 nitrogen, 8 oxygen)
Now, give us some cosmic electricity, some 'windows' from the H to the O, and do we still go boom? Just trying to give these guys every opportunity to be right.

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I'd stick to the people who use "G-d", if I were you

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Well, this commentary I happened upon is not a voice for all creationists, to say the least. So, no, th-nks.

except they got it BACKWARDS. see my post #103 in this thread to see what happens when you try it backwards. if creationist apologist texts that just make shit up count as "some accounts" sure. they only time in the earth's history where there was a significantly greater percentage of oxygen was before the existance of oxygen breathing animal life, but after co2 consuming plants (which would only be day four of creation, if ou're keeping track in genesis).we know this because the entire planet kept catching fire. the carbon deposits in that layer are huge. or, yeah. just keep making stuff up. while we're at it, let's call the o and the h "waters" and that layer "the firmament." see, fits perfectly! i can do it too! whether or not, you still won't get water. the two aren't in contact.

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it has a problem assigning god sons, because in hebrew, what literally means "son" means "member of a family"

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If it was angels who slept with the gals, they are "in the family" circle of trust, no? Difference with Jesus, He was actually a begotten Son. The one and only.

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if you addressed him during his life as that, he wouldn't have even recognized it.

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Then, I would've called Him the local version, but I'm sure He knows Jesus as His name now.

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Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

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the bible says i should kill you

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Wow, you're starting to sound religious, like the people who killed Jesus. Anyhow, no, it wouldn't apply to me. If I spoke something in His name, it would be commanded by Him, as it was for Jesus, and neither most christians, I, nor Jesus (say it, Gee jus)would want to speak in the name of other gods! Especially not evolution, the creator speck, or granny!

actually, i'm starting to suspect these were strictly mortal beings, kings. but that's another thread. you know, except for all the others. see, it turns out "son of god" is a common title for the king of judah/israel. david is calls himself a begotten son of god in psalm 2. and luke calls adam god's son in luke 3.elsewhere (egypt, babylon, etc) kings were refered to as living gods. they were in japan until well into the 20th century. but for the monotheistic hebrews, other gods were a no-no. so they called their kings SONS of god. instead of GOD. you mean the romans? you're speaking the wrong name of god. the bible says i should kill you.

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they only time in the earth's history where there was a significantly greater percentage of oxygen was before the existance of oxygen breathing animal life,

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How do we know that? Things could live with more O, you know?

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we know this because the entire planet kept catching fire. the carbon deposits in that layer are huge.

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Well, what about this carbon between the H, and the O in this latest commentary idea, I spruced up a little?

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So, what seperates the O from the H ? How about dome natural fire suppressants ! Boron, and carbon.

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or, yeah. just keep making stuff up. while we're at it, let's call the o and the h "waters

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Well, it's not me who's hung up on varriations of what the word firmament may mean! But you didn't paste the heidelberg or whatever that was this time, so I surmise the concept is getting a little better with a little carbon in there?

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whether or not, you still won't get water. the two aren't in contact.

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That's why I had the windows there, so the two could mix under the boron, and carbon chaperons.

geology. take a class in it. not if they're ON FIRE they can't. i think it's bull. it's another half-witted attempt to justify the bible against modern scientific understanding, because someone's faith is not strong enough to recognize the FACT that the bible is simply wrong in some areas, and that this only says something about the fallibility of it's human authors and not the god who inspired it. excuse me for actually caring what the bible has to say. nobody else here seems interested in what the text actually contains, especially not the creationists. they're more concerned with it matching some cockeyed concept of reality than studying what the text contains.like i said, it's an issue of their faith being so weak that they need every word to be literally CORRECT -- so much so that they are willing to ignore the literal meaning of the text. i am FAR more literalist than the literalists here. hindenburg. and fine, i'll do it again: with a note this time: the skin of the hindenburg was a thin layer of flame-retardant material. a fact you may not be aware of:

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Knowing the risks of hydrogen gas, the engineers used various safety measures to keep the hydrogen from causing any fire when it leaked, and they also treated the airship's coating to prevent electric sparks that could cause fires. Such was their confidence in their ability to handle hydrogen, a smoking room was even present on the Hindenburg.

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http://encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/Hindenburg_disasterneet, huh? then you get fire. lots of it.

Yes, that's what they said. It's still backwards. Do they say how much? Oxygen is toxic at high levels (above 25%, I think, for humans: ) The air is currently 20%, so there's not much room to play with, and I'm not sure how much I'd want floating around at ground level. And the hydrogen would be on top: Off into space in fact, which is why there is almost none in our atmosphere ( 0.0005%) although if the Earth was freshly made with a load of hydrogen in the atmosphere only a few thousand years previously, I'll accept that it wouldn't have time to do so.I doubt we'd need fire suppressant in the air, the hydrogen would be watered (ahem) down by the nitrogen.A quick scratching out:
We could add 5% of the mass of the atmosphere in oxygen before we die:5% of Earths atmosphere = 2.5x10e17 kgWe can ignore the hydrogen, it's too light to make much difference, so we get the same(ish) mass of water if it's converted to water.Mass of the oceans = 1.4x10e24 kg, so we'd only get
0.000001% of the current oceans from this method.But I guess it's a start.This message has been edited by Dead Parrot, 04-20-2005 10:09 PM

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

but what if there were no mountains and the earth was all flat! lol.

Some sort of waders might be in order...

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Mat 27:5 And he went and hanged himself
Luk 10:37 Go, and do thou likewise.

i'll get my snorkel and water wings.

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It the whole continental plate moved, and weaker areas, such as an old sea bed were squeezed up? Would not we then look for areas of some heat around the squeezed up area, say, the rockies, in Canada, bordered by the cariboo, and other ranges that do have the both, sedimentary, and magmic intrusions, etc?

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now, i've taken a couple geology classes, and i can't figure out what the hell you just said. the kind, shape, and size of deformations help indicate the speed

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I can see we are not on the same page here. Imagine a continent moving, and we'll say it is a pancake. When the friction or whatever force stops it from moving on one end (the direction it's moving towards) it might fold up, or bend up in some place. Like a little mountain range ripple on the pancake. Some areas of the continental pancake plate would be weaker (I think walt brown talked of this) and buckle, and get pushed up. So the speed of the main continental plate, would not be the same, or much related to the bit that got squeezed up. So if it was north america sliding over, say, the old sea, where the rockies are got pushed up into the rocky mountain range, and are full f sea fossils. Further west, in canada, the other ranges, west of the rockies are made up of magma, and sedimentary rock, indicating heat. The direction it would have been moving would be from east to west, so we would expect some heat there in the west. Now I don't have it all exactly right how it happened here, but that would be the general idea.

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size, and closed conditions. we're not so much concerned with "the greenhouse effect" as we are with "the RUNAWAY greenhouse effect." a closed system compounds its effects.

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Hmm. Well, this canopy thing really is a pain. How about a runaway canopy that is not closed, but only semi covers the globe?

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the bible is an interesting book, you should read it sometime. oh, and notice he says he'll blot out the animals too? not just the wicked people.

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Imagine how bad men were that they had even corrupted the animals! I shudder to think of the filth. No wonder He regreted it! Nevertheless, He fixed it, by saving men after all.

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let's stone ezekiel!

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Well let's have a peek at that one. Can you tell me the year, or time when this was to be ultimately fulfilled?"They shall destroy the walls of Tyre (Ezekiel 26:4); I will scrape her dust from her, and make her a bare rock (Ezekiel 26:4); she shall become a spoil to the nations (Ezekiel 26:5); many nations shall come up against thee, as the waves of the sea (Ezekiel 26:3). All of these prophecies were most circumstantially fulfilled.Cooke alleged that the siege of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar was "probably inconclusive." However, it went on for a period of thirteen years (586 B. C. to 573 B.C.) and any worse "defeat" than such a siege can hardly be imagined. Furthermore, "It is evident that Nebuchadnezzar did indeed establish authority over Tyre, because an ancient inscription dated in 564/563 B.C. mentions a Babylonian high commissioner, alongside Tyre's native king (evidently a vassal of Nebuchadnezzar)."It should be noted that a final end of Tyre was not to come in a single overthrow; it would be the result of "many nations," coming against the proud city "as the waves of the sea." First, there was Nebuchadnezzar (586-573 B.C); the Persians next subjugated Tyre in 525 B.C.;F12 then, there was Alexander the Great (332 B.C.); and Tyre's remaining history continued to show the `continuing waves' of destruction. These included their submission to the Antiochus III, to Rome in the days of that empire, and to the Saracens in the fourteenth century A.D.F13 Is not this indeed "as the sea causeth her waves to come up?"That Tyre would become as a bare rock is demonstrated by the condition of the place now, and for centuries previously.That God would scrape her dust from her took place when Alexander the Great built a great mole out to the island fortress, took it, and then scraped the whole city into the ocean! [ha]A few commentators, quoting Ezek. 29:18, insist that "this prophecy was not fulfilled." However, in that passage Ezekiel was referring only to a "single wave" of the many that came against Tyre. Besides that, there are indeed Biblical examples of prophecies that were not fulfilled. God's promise through Jonah to overthrow Nineveh in forty days was not fulfilled. Why? Nineveh repented! Furthermore, we cannot rule out the possibility of an unrecorded repentance by Tyre. "It is possible that Tyre was spared because of an unrecorded repentance." It would be helpful if some of our radical "scholars" would read Jer. 18:7-10. We have no evidence whatever that Tyre ever repented; but they certainly had some knowledge of the Lord; and it is no more unreasonable that, at one time or another, they indeed might have repented, than that Nineveh herself did so! Our view here is that every Word of God's prophecy against Tyre came to pass exactly as he promised. " Ezekiel 26 - Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Now for my 2 cents worth. There are still nations! So, sounds like the storm isn't over there yet! What is coming as a final fulfillment, I can say, will make Alexander's scraping the whole place into the sea look like times of wine and roses! Nuff said.

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rasputin? the one who tricked all of the royal ladies of czarist russia into having sex with him?

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No. The one the Russian secret police who were enemies mostly of the christian Empress, (and predessors of the kgb) staged a hack job on! The reports we hear were from their reports, and echoed incessently by the media - also enemies of christian 'holy' Russia. The earliest total character assasination I am aware of, and subsequent historical cleansing, of course. Also his actual assasination as well, shortly afterwards. Dis you know he tried to keep the Czar and his wife out of the first world war? The same time the shot that was heard around the world was fired (I believe it was the same day?) Rasputin was attempted to be killed, almost successfully as well!? He couldn't get back to moscow to try to keep them out of the war, and could manage only a phone call, which wasn't enough to stop the war.

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we know that they usually used nails..

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OK, fair enough. Of course of the three crucifixions on Jesus' execution day, 2 of the three were with ropes.

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but the same enough to indicate that they copied from something

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Something inspired by God, no doubt.

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No, Jesus didn't make the Father! Besides, the Father isn't a 'thing'!

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yes, but jesus was an actual incarnate being, made in the image of the father

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He did say, my Father is greater than I.

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even still, worshipping any image of god is still forbidden.

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A Son may be the image of His Dad, but it doesn't make Him an image. He's the real deal, part of the Godhead. 'Let us make man in Our image'
Jesus was there, in the garden, and before man was made. He became a man, like we are, in the image of God, yet He was God.

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to say a mortal being is god is blasphemy. plain and simple

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He was in the world, and the world was made by Him. He is not mortal! He just put on mortality for a bit, for our sakes, then ascended right back into heaven, at the right hand of God (with an o in the middle here). He is immortal, the I Am.