Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Missouri Anti-Evolution Bill
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 10 of 50 (172292)
12-30-2004 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Joralex
12-30-2004 12:02 PM


Re: Deception disguised as "science"
The second deception is in the headline "Antievolution legislation stirring". What is being proposed is NOT, I repeat, NOT, "antievolution" --- it is PRO-truth. Read the Bill for yourself - nowhere does it say "Stop teaching evolution" ... it's objective is to promote a greater truth with other facts brought into evidence (something that the NCSE for some odd reason objects to).
No, that is not correct. How can it be "PRO-truth" to advocate the teaching of biased religious ideas in a public classroom that are clearly false and merely dressed up enough to convince a lazy minded and scientifically illiterate layman? Why should science teachers be forced be legislative fiat to teach lies? They shouldn't.
Creationists don't want the "greater truth" you mentioned, unless it is their "greater truth". That is the whole problem.
Again, I know of not a single creationist that would say, "Teaching evolution should be banned from our schools." There is undoubtedly some science in the ToE and this should be taught. It's when Naturalism is tossed into the mix and passed off as "science" that we creationists object to.
I do. Lots of them. Don't kid yourself about the totalitarian nature of some of the people you have philosophically allied yourself with.
What people such as these are trying to do is make 'bogeymen' out of us ... to make it appear like we're anti-science, anti-progress, anti-knowledge. To the uninformed we are thereby vilified as "religious fanatics".
Creationism is inherently anti-science. It is the act of taking belief in a given mythology and accepting it rather then the findings of science. I think that's a pretty good definition of "anti-science". Further, since the the vast majority of real progress in the history of man has been by people using the principles of science, I think "anti-science" and "anti-progress" go pretty much hand in hand. Finally, if one defines "knowledge" as "the state or act of knowing", as the American Heritage Dictionary does, and considering that science is the only way humanity has found to get real information about the world, then those who deliberately turn their backs on that information may rightly be called "anti-knowledge". So, yes, creationists are anti-science, anti- progress, and anti-knowledge. Creationists who want their views taught in the public schools in any way are also pretty much anti-The United States Constitution.
Folks, this is deception of a very wicked kind. Don't take my word for it. I encourage you to seek the TRUTH about these things. People such as the NCSE are deceiving many. These people -- materialistic Naturalists -- have a religious agenda while hiding behind the guise of science.
This just laughable. Naturalism is part and parcel of science, one of the pillars on which it stands, and all the advances that it has provided are reliant upon it. Yet, now, when a disgruntled minority of believers in one mythology find they do not like it's findings, we are supposed to start doing science differently, in a way that suits them and their worldview.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Joralex, posted 12-30-2004 12:02 PM Joralex has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Joralex, posted 01-02-2005 7:57 PM mikehager has replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 16 of 50 (173205)
01-02-2005 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Joralex
01-02-2005 7:57 PM


Re: Deception disguised as "science"
And Naturalism isn't a "biased religious idea"? Just who do you think you're kidding?
No one, because it isn't. Naturalism in the context I was using it means the idea that science must be done on that which is observable, testable and falsfiable. That is in no way religious.
Yet I don't hear any complaints about the falsehoods being fed to our kids to promote Naturalism/evolution. Why is that?
Because there aren't any. Evolution is one of the best supported theorys out there. It is the best explanation available for how the world works. That is why it belongs in the science classroom. The fact that a very vocal minority doesn't like it for religous reasons is immaterial.
Uh, huh ... and materialistic Naturalists don't want any "greater truth" unless it's their "greater truth" -- that the material universe is...
Again, no. Science wants to know the facts about how the world works and to construct theory to explain the facts. That's all. The prevalant mythology in America has parts that disagree with the findings of science. This offends those who believe in it. Too bad. I'm sorry science bothers them, but I really don't care. The only time I care is when they try and get something other then science in the science classroom.
Another good distiction is that science looks at what is and works from there. Creationists look at what they already "know" and try to support it. Creationism is thus flawed from the get-go.
I'm willing to bet that I know far more creationists (I'm a YEC myself) and I know not a single one that says this and yet you know "lots of them". I find that particularly interesting.
You should find it interesting. The alignment of the creationist movement with the religious and political right is an ominous and troubling development. Beware that bet. You may just loose it.
FYI, the "vast majority" of the foundations of modern science was laid down by people believing in God. To name just two, Isaac Newton and J. C. Maxwell (Maxwell's Equations). Newton's writings in Christian theology far exceed his work in math and physics combined.
Absolutely irrelevant. These men, and other christian scientests right up to today, keep their faith and yet do their work within the standards of science. The personal beliefs of those working in the sciences is irrelevant. Only the product is important.
You're simply lost.
and,
'Clueless' is the only word that comes to mind.
Meaningless drivel that says nothing. I am neither lost nor clueless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Joralex, posted 01-02-2005 7:57 PM Joralex has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024