Alas, poor Ohio .... EvC related news

the ohio school board meeting can be heard in downloaded sections from this site:Forbiddennote that it is a creationist site - not a place one would find a scientific discussion ...enjoy.

There is another problem with ID. No matter how adamantly they claim it is not a religious doctrine does not make that a fact.The fact of the matter is that Deism is a religious doctrine - see:
Deism - WikipediaYou'll notice (a) that it has been around longer than ID, (b) it was popular with several "Founding Fathers" like Jefferson (instrumental in the separation of church and state doctrine), (c) it makes less claim about the effect of a designer than ID does, and finally (d) that it is a religious belief.ID is stuck somewhere between creationism and Deism and thus is irrefutably a religious belief. It is a poorly framed form of Deism with a lot of baggage left over from the creationists, baggage taht interferes with a proper look at it's precepts.I provide more thoughts on this topic at:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/AbbyLeever/ID-evaluation.htm
but I leave you with this quote from my essay:"The focus of ID as commonly used has obviously been limited to only some scientific and religious inputs, and this is clearly narrow-minded and headed in the wrong direction. There appears to be an a priori assumption in the popular usage, that life on this planet was the main purpose of the whole universe wide design process, when there is no valid reason to conclude such a [biosphere egocentric] thing. There also appears to be an a priori assumption that humans on this planet are the ultimate end result of that universe wide design process, when there is no valid reason to conclude such a [species egocentric] thing.

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Advocates of ID can say that they don't specify who or what [the designer] is, however for it to accomplish what they claim, it must be able to act invisibly across interstellar distances or to periodically appear on earth, act, and then disappear at will without leaving any traces thereof, and be able to do either while violating time constraints for the speed of travel for all natural objects. That to me is supernatural behavior, and any being capable of supernatural action is de facto a god of some flavour. So whether you call the [active \ creative agent] a god or an supernatural alien is just a matter of semantic gamesmanship."Enjoy.(italicized "a priori")[This message has been edited by AbbyLeever, 03-15-2004]

Thanks, I may do that once I get my legs here.

take it further: separate and equal for the people ... laws of nature ... nature's god ... that all men are created equal ... among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ... to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.all these elements point to the teaching of the natural laws in a manner that would not interfere with the separate and equal treatment of all the various personal and individual varieties of faith and belief.And note particularly that government is empowered by the people, not a god.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}