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And how many Innocent lives were lost while Saddam was in power, and Klinton did nothing to stop the killing?
M82A1, while you make a good case that Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator, who used horrific methods to punish people, this does not refute Rei's points at all.
For your information, Saddam had been practicing these things back when Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with the man over deals for weapons to massacre his own people. Back then Hussein was no different than he was later under "Klinton", but was treated as royalty by "Raygun" (and "Rummy"), and even by "King Bush".
The only thing which changed what our government said about him, was his invasion of another puppet dictatorship we had in our pocket. It is well known that we had essentially given the greenlight to do it too. A trap so we could replace him? Or just to grab more oil control?
Clinton may have stuck to international law with regards to Iraq, but I don't see that as a valid criticism. One might note that even Bush Jr did not do anything with Saddam, until 9-11 and then his failure to get BinLaden and Mullah Omar gave him an excuse.
And I am unsure what you are condemning in those tapes. These exact methods of torture are why we had been "rendering" people to Iraq and Saudi Arabia and other countries with horrible human rights records for revenge, under the veil of getting more information. If you are against this, why are you not criticizing both Bushes, and Reagan for allowing it to happen and continue happening?
Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that this guy was great. If anything this is karma for him. But his evil was propped up by everyone right through Bush Sr. And Bush Jr has simply swapped one group of evil people for another.
Rei can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was suggesting that we must move away from using evil men and evil methods in order to get evil men. Our war to get Saddam was a sham which has brought nothing but misery to the Iraqi people so far, and is not guaranteed to improve their lot in life. I guess I am a bit more hopeful than Rei in that I believe there is a chance for something good for the Iraqi people, but I agree with here that what the US is doing is not helping matter at all.
You do know one of our puppet government leaders is a known criminal right? He has already bilked millions from poor people, you think he's not going to do so again?
And do you really believe the torture rooms will be closed, especially if Shiite leaders get their way? And do you really think we'll stop them, if they offer us a place to "render" terrorists we don't want seeing the light of US courtrooms?
I shed no tears for Saddam Hussein. But if your tears for the Iraqis and peace in the world are more than crocodile tears, let's hear your condemnation of Reagan, Rumsfeld, Bush Sr, and now Bush Jr.
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holmes