Define faith?

Hey Shraf, the funny thing about the truth is that it's never necessary to prove it. Your a smart girl, but it appears that you pick an ideology and then try to find facts that support it, rather than forming your idealogy around the facts. I'm not claiming to know you...I'm only stating what it looks like from an outside perspective based on the posts I have read. Without taking a combative approach, why not tell us what you believe and why you believe it. This forum is a great sounding board filled with a gammut of diverse ideologies...perhaps you'll learn something that'll change your mind or maybe you'll find that the discussions only strengthen your convictions. I believe you're much smarter than the MTV "we are the world" catchphrase mentality that you've shown us thus far.

There's no way to truely explain biblical life to a person who does not believe in God. You have no reference point..no grid with which to assimilate that information.Schraf, you seem to take offense at Christian living when you no understanding of it. Is it your hatred of Christians themselves, or do you despise the economy of God? (or your understanding of the economy of God, since you don't believe in Him)If it's the Christians themselves that you have problems with, well that's understandable. Christians are always going to fall short when compared to the ideals they hold high. We are only human. God knows this and shows us grace. It's the athiests who enjoy tearing a struggling Christian apart.If it is God's word that you take offense with, how do you expect to get the answers you seek? Christians often time dont know why it works, just that it does. If you want to know "why" ask God yourself. We KNOW it works, we KNOW He exists, and we KNOW that the bible is written by men devinely inspired by God. We know these things because of an intimate relationship with Jesus that we have that other people do not.We don't have to PROVE God exists to you. He exists depite your belief in Him. So what's the point in arguring? Do your bogus marriage statistics disprove God? No. Does your hatred of the biblical husband and wife relationship show God as being unloving or sexist? Maybe it does to you. We believe His way is right, because we know Him, and His intentions for us are always good, kind and loving. You don't understand nor will you understand it unless you know him.As always, you are free to say what you want, but you don't know God so you can't speak with any authority on the subject.[This message has been edited by Arachnid, 02-04-2003]

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I was a believer for the first 19 years of my life.

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As you have stated many times before, you grew up in a catholic household thereby being "Christian" by default. Since you have not experienced a relationship with Jesus, your belief in Him was superficial. I don't think this qualifies you for saying you "used to be Christian". Christianity is not some club you join (well, for some it is...but that's not real Christianity) Christianity is a statement of faith based on a true knowledge of Christ.

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In that case, I KNOW that the Great Galactic Goat created the entire universe is just as valid a claim as yours.

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Do you have an intimate relationship with a Great Galactic goat or are you just SAYING it? See that's the difference. We have a relationship with Jesus. He speaks to us. That's how we know.

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Sorry, the claim, "I KNOW that the marriage hierarchy proposed by the Southern Baptists works" is testable, and it doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence.

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Ummm.... Who said that?? I never said that. I don't know where the southern baptists fit into this debate... I'm not southern baptist so I have no idea what they are saying or why you are refering to them.

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Please provide evidence that the statistics are flawed or invalid in any way. They are not renderd false just because you say they are and want them to be, sorry.

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Since this is YOUR claim I don't have to prove that it's wrong, you have to prove that it's right. Heck, if we wanna do it your way, I am Thor, mighty god of thunder...prove me wrong

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I don't have to know god to point out the illogic in their arguments.

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That's true, however it is not their ARGUMENTS that make it right or true. We believe God's way to be true whether we can defend it it to your satisfaction or not.

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So sez you.

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Yup

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If a certain doctrine is vulnerable to abuse because there is nothing to prevent controlling people from taking advantage of it, then the doctrine may reasonably be regarded as flawed for practical purposes, no matter how attractive some may find it as an idea.

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By this definition there is no doctrine, biblical or otherwise, that is not flawed. Do you find the tenents of the 10 commandments to be flawed? You don't have to be a Judeo-Christian to know that it's not cool to kill people or steal their stuff. It's not a fair assessment to say that because people are murdered, the commandment "Thou shall not kill" is a flawed doctrine.

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The question is not whether to prevent killing but how. The question is not whether to promote stable relationships for the purposes of child rearing but how. The devil - so they say - is in the detail.

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Excellent point. The Bible is filled with the details on how to be a Godly husband and a Godly wife...and moreover, how to life a Godly life. The details are in the book. The problem is, that the secular world has difficulty putting these tenents into practice because they miss a crucial element...Jesus.You can be as nice as you want, showing respect, showing generosity, being an overall "good" person, but without the "spirit", you are still a sinner with a sinful nature. Unfortunately, sin is like cancer...doesnt matter how healthy you eat or how much exercise you get, you are still infected...and ultimately your efforts are for naught. The same is true for a "good" person unsaved from sin. He may "do" all the right things, but without Christ, he is doomed for failure.Let's be clear: You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person. In fact, I know more good people who are NOT Christian than otherwise. But a Christian (in my opinion) is centered in his spirit...his heart is correctly in line with the Creator's will.

I think women are better to snuggle with...but that's just me. I haven't been willing to try the other side so my opinion is slanted....so yeah, women ARE better.

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Menstruating women are considered filthy and sinful, and women are routinely taken as the spoils of war.

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Whoa, slow down there little sister. In the OT days there was a lot less sanitation and sleeping with a bleeding woman really increased your chances of getting disease. Chicks weren't considered sinful because of their menstral cycle.

Here we go again...do you really need proof that in 2000 BC sanitation wasn't up to today's standard?? Use common sense, John. I can also tell you that there wasn't indoor plumbing and refridgeration...do you need proof of THAT too? Are you expecting to find a bible passage that says "thou shalt not crap indoors"??Besides, providing proof of anything to you has become an act of idiocy. If I called you a guy, you'd argue and say that your a chick.Just for kicks, tell me what proof you'd find as exceptable to your standards. I'd really be interested in knowing what passes for gospel in your eyes.BTW, smurfs aren't real, but im damned if I can prove it to you.

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But all I asked about was the claim that sex with a menstruating woman was more likely to transmit disease than sex with that same women when she is not mentruating.

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I Suppose I'm asking too much to ask you to actually READ the post. We are talking about OT days... Not NOW... THEN. Do you get that part??? Can we agree that there were some legitimate health concerns prior to modern medicine? For example: If you stubbed your toe you could catch gangrene and die. A simple case of pinkeye could be fatal. Many foods could not be eaten a day after it was prepared due to various strains of food poisoning. Do you get that? Does that make sense? Can we agree, or must I prove to you that people used to eat food back in the olden days?Certain diseases such as Chlamydia, Herpes are guaranteed to be passed by a menstruating woman who have these conditions wereas a non menstruating woman with these diseases may not pass them at all. Now for the gammut of research you require...its a little place known as the Center for Disease Control. Hey, and check this out...they have a website! Centers for Disease Control and Prevention If you'd like more references, try Google And search "menstruation"" sexually transmitted" I bet even YOU can find at least ONE disease that you can get from a menstruating woman..and that's with women TODAY...It was far more risky to sleep with a bleeder back in OT times.Okay, here's the part were you don't agree and all the facts are bunk 'cause your mom told you that cooties come from kissing girls and blah, blah, blah. Make us proud.

John,You can have the last word. Im embarrassed for you. I could never make you look as foolish as you just did. If you want to help your cause, you may wish keep quiet and let the smart people plead your case.But hey, thanks for the laugh.