The Christian view of life

It's not like one would say anything to their face about it. It's a private judgement one makes. I can certainly relate to taking one's pleasure whenever possible, although in the long run, they don't amount to much. I don't know about that. My nihilism is a description of the human condition. He fears death because it brings an end to him--pleasures or no.

I'll expand on this point if I may. By way of analogy.For most of us there is a certain amount of financial insecurity which sits as an immoveable rock in the back of our minds. God revealing himself to a person is a little like winning the lotto. We didn't know how much the financial worry informed and restricted our every move until such time as there is no need to worry about finances anymore.But after the inital glow of winning the lotto wears off, life settles down and can appear quite normal again. We wouldn't go around thinking "I'm a zillionaire" all the time were we to win the lotto. Then, one day we happen across an item in a shop which we find really nice, and think, due to a lifetimes conditioning: "Nice - worth the price but still, very expensive". Then suddenly we remember what our actual position is. We can afford to buy it. A little thrill of reminder that we are zillionaires and there is no need to worry about not being able to afford things again.Life with God is a little like that I find. You don't think about it 24/7, but whenever you begin to look at life through the old tinted spectables: to look at life as meaningless or boring or get upset with decisions made by poiticians or whatever it is - you can suddenly realise "Hey, I'm not in that position anymore. God is there, he has a plan for me. All is well now and all is going to be very well indeed! I'm a spiritual zillionaire"Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

In the long run we're all dead. But pleasure just means anything that makes us feel good - so, paradoxically, refraining from wine, or heroin, or sex can be experienced as pleasure when we know that indulging them will cause us pain. If your nihilism were just a neutral description of the human condition, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But actually what you have argued in the past is that, because there is no divine or logical ground for morality or purpose, then there is no ground at all. Now there are two ways you can take such a philosophy:1. Either you take it as a radical criticism of society (as nihilists in the 19th century did, particularly in Russia) that justifies any action against the things you hate (because no social rule has any ultimate justification);2. Or you believe that morality and purpose are important and start hankering after some divine or logical ground for them.But what the nihilist argument misses is that purpose and morality aren't dependent on the divine or on logic at all. We have purpose and we have morality regardless of gods or logic; they are part of our human nature, and they grow out of our interaction with the world. If my life were only pain and suffering I think I would welcome death rather than fear it.Edited by JavaMan, : Typo

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'I can't even fit all my wife's clothes into a suitcase for travelling. So you want me to believe we're going to put all of the planets and stars and everything into a sandwich bag?' - q3psycho on the Big Bang

Celebration of life at someone's death just hits me as a denial of death. Can't get around that, sorry. No implications as to how I would treat them personally. Isn't that obvious? I might be guilty of trying to help them mourn since they are being called upon to deny it.On the other hand one could argue that Robin's plan to put himself out with the trash denies death too. Kind of the nihilistic version of hysteria.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Death: you can celebrate the life, get buried, cremated, or sent into space, you can have your head cryogenically preserved, you can believe you don't die but appear as an eskimo, you can believe you are going to heaven. You can even run..But you can't hide.Good to see you firing on all cylinders this fine morn!Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Sigh. If I went to the service I would try to be a shoulder to cry on. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child, and to murder especially.

The nihilist "misses" that? After pondering carefully and realizing that there is no purpose other than that of his own making? Nihilists don't miss that at all. They have found that it's a sham and a delusion. Tolstoy had all kinds of purpose in his life, but when he looked at it fearlessly he realized that it gave only a spurious and deceptive purpose, ephemeral at best, while the human being is built for eternity.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't think I understand what you mean by 'denial of death'. I can only assume you mean 'denial of the life after death', because otherwise why would you think that celebrating someone's mortal life were a denial of death? Again I seem to understand something different by 'mourn' than you do. We mourn because we've lost someone; it's their loss of life and the big, empty hole that it leaves behind. We come to terms with that in whatever way we can; the hole is never entirely filled, but trying to fill it with memories of the living person seems a perfectly natural response to me.

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'I can't even fit all my wife's clothes into a suitcase for travelling. So you want me to believe we're going to put all of the planets and stars and everything into a sandwich bag?' - q3psycho on the Big Bang

I certainly don't feel that way. I'm not criticizing "society." I don't care about society. There isn't any ground (as far as I can tell). Nonetheless, there is no escaping morality. I go by feeling. As regards "purposes," one makes them up. Often they change during one's life.

On the contrary, I think if one knows the person was saved into life after death, THAT is cause for celebration, but not of their life so much as their present happiness beyond the grave. Even then you mourn their loss on earth, that big hole you mention.You are making way too much out of what I said. Of course reviewing the person's life is the natural response upon their death; you may sit around for days with family and friends recalling the person's life and personality. It's a part of the mourning.It's just this chipper chin-up "celebration" idea that sounds like denial in the midst of a tragedy that tears the heart out.

The point is that it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

The problem with the "celebration of life" idea at a funeral is that it's a euphemism. And according to my code, euphemisms are not permitted.

Yes, it is a denial, but not in the way you mean.The family are celebrating their child's life publicly to deny the murderer's power over them. They're saying to the world, 'Our child is more than just the victim of this evil person. She had a life of her own and this is what she meant to us'.It's not bravado, it's retaliation.

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'I can't even fit all my wife's clothes into a suitcase for travelling. So you want me to believe we're going to put all of the planets and stars and everything into a sandwich bag?' - q3psycho on the Big Bang

Oh wow, that's really going to show the murderer what-for. Now really JM, this is a PARODY of retaliation, pantomime, or "retaliation" in quotes, and that amounts to what I called it, bravado. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This is also a euphemism. Their daughter is not coming back, and in that sense the "power" of the murderer will last forever. They'd be better off vowing vengeance on the murderer, in my book.