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Author Topic:   Are theistic evolutionists really IDers?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 91 (464411)
04-25-2008 12:55 PM


We could go so far as to say that Theistic Evolutionists are creationists, because they believe that god uses evolution to create lifeforms.
But why cloud the issue?
CreationistsTM believe that evolution cannot explain god's creation, so in that sense, TE's are not 'those type' of creationists.
I think randman has a hidden agenda with this one...
Obviously, TEists could be considered IDists, but there's really no reason to. All it does is confuse things.
Unless, of course, someone does have a reason... I wonder why randman was trying to do this

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 2:25 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 91 (468430)
05-29-2008 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
05-29-2008 2:25 AM


We could go so far as to say that Theistic Evolutionists are creationists, because they believe that god uses evolution to create lifeforms.
But why cloud the issue?
Why is it clouding the issue to point out the obvious? Theistic evos are in some sense creationists.
I answered that in the next sentance in my post:
quote:
CreationistsTM believe that evolution cannot explain god's creation, so in that sense, TE's are not 'those type' of creationists.
The same goes with being an IDist. IDest believe that evolution is wrong. To say that a Theistic Evolutionist is an IDist would imply that they don't accept the ToE, but that is not the case.
Its just confusing and unnecessary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 2:25 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 1:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 91 (468451)
05-29-2008 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by randman
05-29-2008 1:35 PM


Is it a scientific view to claim God created the universe or not?
It's not.
Moreover, if theistic evos believe God created the universe, on what basis do they believe the same Intelligent Designer would never intervene in the universe or in the formation of life on earth?
As a TEist, I don't believe that god would never intervene. I do believe, however, that scientific explanations are sufficient to explain the things that we observe today.
Burning Bushes.... not so much.
Is it just the faith of theistic evos to insist that God could only be effective in direct intervention at the beginning?
I don't put limits on god's abilities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 1:35 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 2:45 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 91 (468466)
05-29-2008 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by randman
05-29-2008 2:45 PM


So you have no objections in principle to looking for evidence God has intervened?
Not really. Look all you want. I doubt you'll find anything, though.
That's fully acceptable for science and not a threat to science as so many claim?
How is it a threat to science? Might be a threat to Positivism, but again, I doubt that anything will actually be found to prove god.
The only issue, I presume, is whether existing theory can explain all of the evidence which is a debate for other threads?
Well, science works like a charm. I mean, here we are talking over the internet with computers. Do you think that computer science can explain all the evidence? Even if they can't, it doesn't seem to be hurting at all. The evidence that they are not seeing doesn't matter if it has no effect on anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 2:45 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 5:39 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 91 (469232)
06-04-2008 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by randman
05-30-2008 8:16 PM


Re: Where I stand
double post.
see Message 90
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 05-30-2008 8:16 PM randman has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 91 (469233)
06-04-2008 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by randman
05-30-2008 8:16 PM


Re: Where I stand
Any theistic evos want to chime in on why and whether they see evidence for God, or are they just maintaining faith there is a God but all available evidence for the universe indicates there isn't...or there is....or what?
I maintain faith in God in the face of the absence of empirical evidence for gods' existences. I see no evidence indicating that there isn't a god.
I do feel like a have a soul, which leads me to believe that there is something else to this world that science isn't detecting. This makes it "easier" to believe in god.
I think that RAZD is right that you have the wrong impression of TEists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 05-30-2008 8:16 PM randman has not replied

  
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