A Model of the Trinity--in a Basketball Arena?

He was never only a man. No man on earth could have lived a life like He did. He was fully a God and fully a human. A perfect man as well as a perfect God. He had all the power in His hands, but he never revealed it in its true glory. He had all the needs we have, but never sinned. And was not the only true Christian. Being a Christian means that no matter how many times sin makes you fall you will try and surpass all the obstacles. The important thing is to understand your inferiority and always have the will to fight and not give up.

And scriptures that tell us this are . . .

Actually, IMHO if that is true, then Christianity makes no sense.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Haven't you ever heard of this before? I will be stunned if you haven't. This is the opinion of the Orthodox Church. Through the centuries many are those who have doubted one of Jesus Christs' natures but the Ecoumenical Synods have proven them wrong. Those people started numerous heresies by doubting things like the natures of Jesus or interpreted the Bible differently for their own reasons. If you need more specific information, I will have to get back to you later in order to give you all the facts. To me, this is the only way it could be. God hid his glory in our nature. He could never stop being a God and He could never have suffered in order for us to get forgiveness if he didn't have the human nature.This message has been edited by dancer, 04-06-2006 04:07 PM

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This is the opinion of the Orthodox Church. Through the centuries many are those who have doubted one of Jesus Christs' natures but the Ecoumenical Synods have proven them wrong. Those people started numerous heresies by doubting things like the natures of Jesus or interpreted the Bible differently for their own reasons.

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The opinion of the Orthodox (or orthodox) church does not matter if it's not supported by something, such as Scripture (or, if Scripture is not needed, something else that is). "Ecoumenical" (or ecumenical, which I assume is meant) mean nothing if the Bible doesn't support what they say (or if they can show why the Bible is inadequate to discuss this topic).When someone is being burned at the stake, the heretic is the one who doesn't control the fire. Saying that some belief, teaching, or understanding is a heresy doesn't mean it's wrong; it just means it's not P.C. at the time.While the "heretics" may have "interpreted the Bible differently for their own reasons," that doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. It just means they didn't have control of the fire.

One mans herecy is another mans dogma..The basis for this is what? just because the orthodoxy is that the three are one doesn't mean its right. Shoot theres not difference between this and the belief in the tri-gods of the celts, they believed the exact same thing before patrick came and they believed it after only in a montheistic way.
the trinity is purely extra-biblical and even the lines that are claimed to show it doesn't show it in the way the church is claiminga lot of the lines are gnostic in origin, john even considers jesus the logos (this is gnostic) even though the later churchs who called the gnostics heretics tried to get rid of the gnostic underpanningsThis message has been edited by ReverendDG, 04-06-2006 10:16 PM

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One mans herecy is another Mans dogma..

It's an "O". The first letter of every name is always capitalised. The Orthodox Church is the one who kept its initial beliefs when the first schism took place while the Roman Catholics changed their view on certain things. Orthodox Christians are located in Greece, Russia etc (Eastern Church). When an entire church supports a certain view, although it is obvious that it cannot convince everyone, it goes without saying that there ARE some serious reasons. It is not as if one individual supports a view, it is a lot of people. And while everyone's point of view should be respected, that should also be true when it comes to an entire Church. And I am talking about respect, not acceptance without research first. I also mentioned the Ecumenical Synods (excuse my spelling, since it is a greek word I got carried away by the way it is spelt in greek) because even if you do not agree with the conclusions they came to, you cannot ignore the importance of the gathering of important men who studied certain issues that would tore their Church apart. This gathering certainly has value even if you do not accept their conlusions. I hope you understand what I mean. And please do not talk about heretics burnt at stake because we are talking about the Orthodox Church and not about others who actually had this tradition, it is an insult. Quite the opposite is what has happened through the centuries to the Orthodox Christians. They have been persecuted but they managed to keep their faith (ex. Ottoman Empire). I would also like to point out that during WW2 many were those who took Jews in their homes and hid them in order to save them. And last but not least, why are you so simplistic about heretics? I know that in many cases people were assumed are such in order to be eliminated as they posed a threat that had nothing to do with religion, so it was an excuse. But you cannot deny that many are those who have tried to benefit from promoting a new idea, different from what is commonly believed. So trying to prevent an heretic from influencing (and not by killing them of course) is not necessarily so bad. There is no point in just assuming that all heretics are victims. This is exactly why I mentioned "for their own reasons", because they are numerous, good or bad ang I cannot possibly know them all nor mention them here. I was trying to neutral.

the Ecumenical Synods haven't proven anything, they just declared one of the many views on the nature of Jesus as the orthodox (literal meaning of the word) position and that was it. Anyone opposed was declared a heretic. Why ? why ? agreed, but the debate here is not over his human side but over his divine one. Did he really have a Dual Nature and was he one of the three 'persons' that constitute God ? This is the essence of the Trinity doctrine.The Bible, IMHO, is ambiguous enough to lend credence to the Trinity doctrine while, at the same time, allow support for Aryanism, JWs. LDS , etc.The Bible is what you want it to be.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

(Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33, Jos 5:13-15, Mar 5:6).
(Heb. 1:8)
(John 5:19).
(Acts 7:59).
(1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15).
(John 21:17).
(John 10:28).
(Col. 2:9).

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

What kind of a God would stop being a God?

The loving Christian GOD. In fact that is THE central point of Christianity and has been recognized as such since the very beginning. The whole story of Jesus, the message of salvation, is meaningless if Jesus is not simply another human during his lifetime on earth. If he is still GOD at that point, the temptation in the wilderness is meanless. If he is still GOD at that point, his death is meaningless. If he is still GOD at that point, the events of his life are meaningless.GOD's sacrifice is not Jesus death, it is Jesus life; GOD becoming man, with all the limitations, all the restrictions that implies.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If the Synods' conclusions convince someone, those who are convinced can certainly claim that the heretics have been proven wrong. It comes down to every single person's judgement. Do not expect universal approval on such matters. You can always say they have proven nothing while I support the opposite.

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To me, this is the only way it could be.

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Yes, it is, for all the reasons I have already mentioned. How could a God stop being a God? What would that mean? He would not be the Son of God, who has existed since forever. What good would it be that He sacrificed himself? Think about it. Would the sacrifice of a regular man save us from sin? How would that man have suffered the burden of all our sins? How would God show his love? By sacrificing a man? It does not make any sense to me. Do you remember what Satan provoked Him to do and how he addressed to Him? If you are the Son of God... If Jesus Christ had not come to this earth fully having both natures, what would He have succeeded? What would we have gained?This message has been edited by dancer, 04-08-2006 11:20 AMThis message has been edited by dancer, 04-08-2006 11:21 AM

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The loving Christian GOD. In fact that is THE central point of Christianity and has been recognized as such since the very beginning.

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Recognised by whom???
I totally disagree. The sacrifice was the Cross. The divine nature kept Him pure and sinless. The human nature made Him hungry, thirsty, made Him feel the pain. And I need to repeat it. The sacrifice was the Cross. He took all the worlds' sins on His shoulders. That is why God, for one monent, took His eyes from His Son. The sacrifice IS the Cross.This message has been edited by dancer, 04-08-2006 11:36 AM

You're assuming that it was the death of Jesus that saved us from our sin.God id God. He can do whatever He wants. If He wants to just forgive us, He can do that. He doesn't have to jump through any hoops, shed any blood, wave His magic wand. He can just do it.That's what Jesus came to tell us. We are forgiven. Forgiveness is a free gift - it's right there under the Christmas tree. All we have to do is pick it up and enjoy it.Jesus' death is completely incidental to the message of salvation.

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All Christianity. In case you didn't recognize the quote it was from the Nicene Creed.I will readily admit that many Christians view Christianity as you describe it, concentrating of Jesus Death. But that is actually a small and insignificant part of the message. It's a few pages in the New Testament, more an aside than anything else.For example, in Protestant Churches you see a simple, bare cross. The significance of that is that the cross is empty. Death is conquered.Christ was human. GOD became man. Jesus would have died, regardless. It might have been old age, desease, accident or as I believe happened, by the act of man. But he would have died.GOD cannot die. He cannot be tempted. She cannot suffer. It is GOD.GOD forgave man, all man. That much is a done deal. But GOD went further. He bacame man, just a human, to know our limitations, falicies, failings. That is the Great Sacrifice. Jesus death, if he was GOD at the time, is meaningless.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion