A Model of the Trinity--in a Basketball Arena?

When someone needs further explanation on things I say, I find it good to mention what exactly I am trying to explain furthermore.Just because you are not convinced it does not mean it is not true nor does it mean that it is not proven. Maybe you just don't see it or accept it. There is always that possibility.You do not have to take anything seriously. Even if I give you the whole archives and many interpretation you might not be pleased still. We would probably have to go over the facts, line by line.

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why would God need a sacrifice to save us from the rules He created ? Is God cruel ? is God dumb?

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Please explain further...

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You believe in a God who can only show his love by having himself killed on a cross ?
This is a very limited God you got there dancer.

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Do not isolate my phrases and draw your own conclusions please, it is not honest. We are having a conversation here. I refer to ultimate act of love. We all know through our everyday experiencies that God show His love in many ways.The message only cannot save us. It is combined by the ultimate act of love. A message can be brought to us by a saint, too. Imagine yourself accepting to sacrifice in order to save the ants. That is unbelievably less than what God did.This message has been edited by dancer, 04-08-2006 04:06 PM

I cannot agree with you. All of this is important. We are not forgiven, we can be forgiven, do not mix those two. In the Nicene Creed it is never mentioned that Jesus lost his divine nature while a man.

He was made a man, but where do you see that His divine nature was put aside?

That's the conversation you're having with jar, not me. I didn't say anything about Jesus losing His divine nature. I said that He had to die because He was a man - not because it was necessary for our salvation. I'm not sure if that's on topic, but you need to learn to back up your assertions. If you think Jesus' death was important, explain why it was important. Don't just say you disagree.

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Sorry about that. I am being bombarded with replies!I have already said why it is important (Jesus' death and resurrection). When I explain what I believe but the other person insists on another point of view I can only respect them and state that I still disagree with what they support.

Yes, it is unbelievable. It makes no sense at all except in an emotional sense if one suspends critical reasoning. I don't know exactly when but it was during my teens that one day I read the Nicene Creed and asked myself if I could honestly say I believed it. It didn't take too long for me to realize that I disbelieved half of it and couldn't make any sense of the rest of it and I then realized Christianity had no relevance to me other than it was a large part of the social cultural fabric of the society I live in.lfen

Save the ants from what?How would this be less than what God did and why do you find it unbelievable even though you imagined it and are offering it as a rhetorical argument?lfen

In that case, could you link back to the post like this? You can use the "peek" button in the lower right-hand corner to see how linking is done.Either that or just repeat the basic points of what you said. Some of us are old and don't remember what was said five minutes ago.

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If you do not believe, it is understandable that all this seems strange. As a religion, Christianity is present in social life but I can honestly tell you that it is not just that. Of course, you do not need to believe me. I just feel the need to tell you that, the same way you felt you should tell all of us (or just me, I am not sure about that) what it seems like in your eyes.

Thanks for the tips. Some of us are really new in this forum and don't know all the tricks - yet!

I am sure you understand what I mean by "unbelievably"... anyway. I mean that it is beyond what man could wish for.
Imagine saving a creature that seems so small and unimportant from whatever it may be that it needs saving from! And imagine lowering yourself for that cause and accepting to die because you love that creature and you wish to offer it an opportunity to salvation.

No problem. You don't become a veteran all at once. This message has been edited by Ringo, 2006-04-08 03:05 PM

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He did not have to die, meaning that He had the power to prevent it from happening. He could simply disappear or be lifted up to heaven without having to die, it has happened before. There was a reason why He went through all that. That is why after He asked His Father to allow Him to not go through with it, He said that He would do as His Father wished. Why did God want this and did not let Jesus walk away from the suffering?

There are many points of view on the Bible and its meaning, the source(s) of the meaning, the divinity and/or humanity of Jesus, and many other issues.The Trinity is likened by some as non-Biblical. By others, such as myself, it can be supported Biblically. Of course...then we get back to dealing with the issue concerning the accuracy of the Bible..so there ya go! Whether or not Jesus was a man (with no "superpowers") or not is only important as pertains to the miracles recorded in the Gospels. The miracles themselves are not necessary to prove that God reached humanity through Jesus.I was taught that the crux of christian belief was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Others may say that His life was more important than His death. I can agree with that inasmuch as I too should follow Him in actions rather than mere theological words and concepts! The debate, (among several that we all have) is the idea of whether or not our imprisonment to a sinful nature was broken by Christs substitutionary atonement or not. Personally, I can say that I DO NOT know if I believe the correct doctorines or not.I believe that God loves me.I believe that Jesus lived and died for me and all who hear His message.As to whether or not only those who DO the right things will be saved or whether everyone is already saved, I cannot speak for God. I would just say that getting to know Jesus in a practical way and realizing that He lives within His body---of which you too are a part--is a good step in the right direction

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Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

That's what it means to be man.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion