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Author Topic:   The Apocalyptic Beheaders
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 67 (303163)
04-11-2006 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
04-11-2006 12:33 AM


So far no confirmation of the beheading nonsense.
I did find a few news reports that support the fact of the arrest. But I have not been able to find any reputable confirmation of any of the threats of beheading nonsense.
And it does look like they were breaking the laws. If so, then they deserved to be arrested.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 04-11-2006 12:33 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 67 (304331)
04-14-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
04-14-2006 9:42 PM


The Greatest threat facing the world today
are those Christians that think Revelations refers to some end time instead of events nearly 2000 years ago.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Buzsaw, posted 04-14-2006 9:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 5:15 PM jar has not replied
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 5:36 PM jar has replied
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 10:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 67 (304485)
04-15-2006 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
04-15-2006 5:36 PM


Re: The Greatest threat facing the world today
Faith writes:
Well there are a lot of them, jar, and how do you propose to deal with this Greatest Threat to the world? Beheading strike you as appropriate perhaps?
I notice that it is always the Fundamentaloists that first suggest the most extreme forms of punishment, as in this case, you bring up beheading.
No, the way to deal with them is to point out the utter absurdity of the position. It is to vividly show the consequences of their position so that all will know just how wrong it is. The answer, as so often the case is education. Educate the masses so that the masses know to ignore and marginalize such individuals.
The threat from the apocalyptic crowd of fundies is that for the first time in human history they actually have the capability to bring about the physical worsts of Armageddon, but, as always, no control or understanding of the spiritual part or implications.
In the past it was sufficient to simply ignore the nuts and cupcakes that believed in end-time prophecy, there was little any of them could do, even if in a position of power such as the President of the United States.
In the past, such belief systems could be laughed off as somewhat humorous but non-threatening cults. Today though, we have reached a point where it is actually possible for such people to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, for them to actually destroy all life on earth.
The problem is that there are three sides to any such belief. One is the human capability of action. The second is the spiritual aspects which are outside the control of any human. The third is the overwhelming power of self delusion.
Before going on, I’d like to look at a couple examples of similar belief systems and the outcomes that resulted from their belief system.
The first is what came to be known as “Heaven’s Gate.”
Over the several decade history of the group Heaven’s Gate, the organization varied in size reaching a peak of about 1000 members which through attrition reduced to the final 39 members that committed suicide on March 27, 1997. Surprisingly, the mean age of the members was near 50, neither impressionable youth nor weary old age, but instead what many would consider to be the most hopeful and productive period in ones life.
The basic belief system of the group was that their human existence was but temporary and that they actually belonged to some higher plane, a literal heaven. It was based on the belief that the two founding members were the two prophets described in Chapter 11 of Revelations.
3And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
The group went through many stages, tried going public on several occasions, and eventually settled on a belief that the return of Hale-Bopp was a sign that a spacecraft would return and take them literally to heaven.
Heaven’s Gate Website writes:
Whether Hale-Bopp has a "companion" or not is irrelevant from our perspective. However, its arrival is joyously very significant to us at "Heaven's Gate." The joy is that our Older Member in the Evolutionary Level Above Human (the "Kingdom of Heaven") has made it clear to us that Hale-Bopp's approach is the "marker" we've been waiting for -- the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the Level Above Human to take us home to "Their World" -- in the literal Heavens. Our 22 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion -- "graduation" from the Human Evolutionary Level. We are happily prepared to leave "this world" and go with Ti's crew.
If you study the material on this website you will hopefully understand our joy and what our purpose here on Earth has been. You may even find your "boarding pass" to leave with us during this brief "window."
We are so very thankful that we have been recipients of this opportunity to prepare for membership in Their Kingdom, and to experience Their boundless Caring and Nurturing.
The final act was one of joy it seems for the 39 people involved. They made video tapes leaving messages, seemed euphoric, were truly committed and sincere (one indication was that many of the male members had undergone castration in the past in support of the cults position requiring celibacy) and died by taking a large does of narcotics, then fixing plastic bags over their heads.
We could safely deal with people like Charles Manson because, while quite destructive, he killed only a few people before being caught. Others like James Jones too were self limiting.
BUT...
when we see a President, and senior officials in areas of control, making decisions such as the current administration is making in regards to the Middle east and Iran, we can remain silent no longer. We cannot allow messages like those of the apocalytic crowd to go unchallenged. We must educate the masses so that the apocalytic nutcases are not allowed to bring on armegeddon.
We canot allow their self-delususions to go unchallenged. We need to speak out forcefully and show to all that these people present a serious and immediate threat to mankind.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 5:36 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 6:33 PM jar has replied
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 04-16-2006 4:35 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 67 (304489)
04-15-2006 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Buzsaw
04-15-2006 6:33 PM


Re: The Greatest threat facing the world today
So Faith is not a Christian fundamentalist?
Well there are a lot of them, jar, and how do you propose to deal with this Greatest Threat to the world? Beheading strike you as appropriate perhaps?
Please see Message 17 where she made the above statement.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 6:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 9:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 67 (304512)
04-15-2006 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
04-15-2006 9:40 PM


Re: The Greatest threat facing the world today
Who said "Beheading strike you as appropriate perhaps?" It was in Message 17.
Faith writes:
I suggest that you might be interested in beheading Christians and based on that you pretend I'm in favor of beheading.
Actually no, you didn't suggest that I might be interested in beheading Christians and I have NEVER suggested anything of the sort. You brought the subject of beheading up.
What you said was,
Faith writes:
Well there are a lot of them, jar, and how do you propose to deal with this Greatest Threat to the world? Beheading strike you as appropriate perhaps?
A classic tactic of the Christian Fundamentalist is making totally unsupported character attacks by projecting the methods they would themselves use on those who speak out against their intolerance.
You suggested beheading.
In case you have forgotten, my response to your attempted character assasination was Message 18.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 9:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 10:12 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 67 (304517)
04-15-2006 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
04-15-2006 10:12 PM


Tactics of Christian Fundamentalists.
Faith rants:
Seems to me that calling Bible-inerrancy Christians the greatest threat facing the world today is Character Assassination Par Excellence, and it puts you in the camp with fundamental Muslims, who want to do away with us or enslave us, either one. The language is inflammatory at the very least. If you yourself would not propose such a remedy, you shouldn't call us the "greatest threat to the world" as that gives fuel to our enemies. Fundamental Islam DOES believe in beheading infidels.
Once again you use classic Christian Fundamentalist character assasination by implying that I ever said that I want to "do away with us or enslave us, either one."
Our enemies are the Fundamentalist. It does not matter whether it is Islamic Fundamentalist or Christian Fundamentalists. There's no real difference. Not only that, Christians and Jews are not infidels under any form of Islam except, of course, Fundamentalists.
But it's a valiant attempt to change the subject from where you recommended beheading folk as in Message 17 as opposed to what I actually said
jar writes:
No, the way to deal with them is to point out the utter absurdity of the position. It is to vividly show the consequences of their position so that all will know just how wrong it is. The answer, as so often the case is education. Educate the masses so that the masses know to ignore and marginalize such individuals.
in Message 18.
You continue to try to attribute violent methods to me when I have consistantly said that education is the solution, not violence. Simply shine a bright light on the intolerance and bigotry of the Christian Right, Christian Fundamentalist.
I am not the one that ever suggests violence, instead, I suggest light, education.
edited to chenge subtitle
This message has been edited by jar, 04-15-2006 09:39 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 04-15-2006 10:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 67 (304523)
04-15-2006 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
04-15-2006 10:46 PM


Apocalyptic Christians are the Greatest Threat in the World Today.
Please stop inflaming on fundamentalism and focus on substantive topic input about beheading relative to the apocalypse.
I did buz. Please look at Message 18 where I outline some of the reasons that those who accept the Apocalypse are the Greatest Threat to Mankind in History.
The problem is that for the first time in history those who pervert Christianity with the vision of an Apocalypse to come actually have the means to bring about such madness. We need to point out that the belief in a coming Apocalypse is madness, insanity, and unsupported by anything even remotely related to Christianity. Instead it is but a path leading to death, just like Heaven's Gate or Helter Skelter but this time for all mankind.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 10:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 04-16-2006 2:28 AM jar has not replied

  
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