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Author Topic:   The Evolutionistic Faith
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 32 (80510)
01-24-2004 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by PaulK
01-24-2004 5:23 PM


It is true that one cannot prove that God does not exist. Any kind of universe is consistent with the existent of some god, since all one needs to do is to claim that the existing universe is the way god wanted to create it.
On the other hand, it is possible, in principle, to prove, or at least demonstrate conclusively, that God does exist. All one needs are bone fide miracles, events that simply cannot be explained through natural laws (including the potential for human error). If nothing else, God could make a personal effort to demonstrate to me that she exists by directly speaking to me and consistently showing me one miraculous event after another.
It seems that if there is a god, she created the universe in such a way that there seems to be no known phenomenon that does not have a naturalistic explanation. If god exists, she is the god-of-the-gaps, and the gaps are very small indeed.
Sure, I cannot prove that there is no god, but, as one person stated so long ago (I have read different possibilities as to the exact person), I have no need for that hypothesis.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by truthlover, posted 01-24-2004 10:57 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 32 (80524)
01-24-2004 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by JonF
01-24-2004 6:37 PM


Actually, you can define and manipulate contructs in an infinite number of dimensions. But I agree with the point of your post: this does not necessarily have anything to do with the real universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by JonF, posted 01-24-2004 6:37 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 01-24-2004 6:48 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 32 (80530)
01-24-2004 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Itachi Uchiha
01-24-2004 6:48 PM


I am saying that mathematical constructs do not necessarily have anything to do with reality. I am a graduate student in mathematics, and I have no trouble accepting that the concepts that I am working with are a human invention. I do not believe there exists any "infinite dimensional spaces" (even though I work with them as concepts); or, at least, I will not believe there is any physical reality to an infinite dimensional space until someone provides evidence that such a thing exists.
I do believe things that I can't see exist - as long as there is other evidence for there existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 01-24-2004 6:48 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 32 (80541)
01-24-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by NosyNed
01-24-2004 7:42 PM


Re: My Answer
Apostolos has conflated the concepts of evolution and atheism, and as a result there seems to be some confusion as to the intent of his question. sidelined seems to think apostolos is asking about acceptance of evolution, whereas I (and NosyNed, it seems) think he is asking about disbelief in god. Do you want to clarify, apostolos?

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 32 (80648)
01-25-2004 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by apostolos
01-24-2004 8:56 PM


Re: What I meant...
quote:
Please examine my question again:
I am curious to know why you, as an evolutionist, have made the choice to exercise your faith in this way.

Well, in my case, it wasn't a choice. I used to be a fundmentalist Christian. I was a creationist. But then I realized that the available evidence supported the theory of evolution. I tried to fight against believing it, but I couldn't ignore the facts. Since my fundamentalist beliefs were the "all-or-nothing" inerrant, literalist approach to the Bible, once the Genesis was shown to be wrong, I lost my Christian faith. I didn't do it willingly. I fought against it. I tried to convince myself that the Bible was true by reading apologetics. I constantly prayed to God to given me the strength to retain my faith. But in the end I had to accept that I didn't believe in creationism or the Bible or in God anymore.
If there is a god, I can only say that she is the one to lead me to atheism - presumable she knows what's best for me (wink).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by apostolos, posted 01-24-2004 8:56 PM apostolos has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2004 12:56 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 32 (81718)
01-30-2004 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
01-30-2004 12:56 PM


Re: What I meant...
Did that offend you, buzsaw? It wasn't my intention (although I did mean for some people to sit up and take notice - if that's childish, then yes I am). If you would examine my posts, you would see that when I am writing specifically about the Christian/Judaic/Islamic God I use the masuline pronoun. When I use the feminine I am probably referring to a generic deity not necessarily the one you believe in. (Do you think your Yaweh would actually lead me to atheism?) There may be some exceptions - I'm not always careful, and some instances may not be clear cut.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 01-30-2004 12:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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