Does God = Allah

You keep moving the goalposts and changing the subject jar. Moses' God is Jesus' God. The Jews now deny Him.{abe: First you ask if the God of Moses and Abraham is the God of Christianity and I say yes indeed, only He's not the God of the Jews. My last post proves that He is not, as they have denied the Messiah He sent, whom Moses prophesied, and it was Moses who said they would be punished for rejecting Him. It's the same as rejecting God. Then you switch the wording to whether or not God spoke to Moses, as if that were relevant. God did indeed speak to Moses and one of the things He told him was that He would raise up a prophet like him that the people would disobey to their peril. Moses belongs to those who believe him. The Jews don't.You are addicted to word games.}This message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 06:37 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 06:40 PM

Well, if you ask a Jew they will tell you that they do not deny GOD.But that is totally unimportant anyway and has NOTHING to do with the thread.Now, do you agree that the GOD that spoke to Moshe is the Christian GOD?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What people SAY is unimportant jar, if it doesn't accord with the actual facts, and I've been demonstrating that the Jews reject Moses' own words.Sorry, I added more to my post while you were answering. I can repost it or perhaps you could reread it.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 06:39 PM

Heavens, I've answered this, what, three or four times by now? Yes, that is the Christian God, but He is not the God of the Jews or the Muslims as they reject what He taught through Moses. Hasn't that been made clear enough yet?

Okay. Now to support that position what is there in the Old Testament that shows that the Jews do not worship the GOD that spoke to Moshe?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Technically, from a religious perspective, I can see your argument, Faith.This discussion, however, basically boils down to the God I worship is not the God you worship.I can agree with you, Faith, that there is a spiritual dynamic which believers cannot prove to non-believers, and which is itself controversial. We can assert that Moroni was a demon as well as the Moon god that allegedly spoke to Muhammed.Logically, however, we can't be 100% sure if the God that we pray to is any different than the spirit within the Indian who solemnly observes the sacred volcano. The Spirit could well be the same Holy Spirit reaching out to another group of people or an individual.I don't believe that all paths lead to God. I do believe that God reaches all people irrespective of religious rituals and traditions of man.In conclusion, it is entirely possible for everyone to be a conscious or unconscious idolator at any given moment.The One God whom Is, however, may be speaking to anyone at any given moment, however, whether they are a believer or not.We may be talking to the wrong deity, but you must admit that He knows the thoughtsand intents of each and every individual heart and conscience throughout the world.This message has been edited by Phat, 04-26-2006 04:56 PM

---

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

I don't see the relevance of your remarks, Phat. All I'm doing is trying to show that these are different religions with different Gods. I've shown that thoroughly but people seem to be having a hard time accepting the facts.I'm not addressing which God anybody believes in, that's not the point, I'm simply pointing out that these are different Gods. Allah is not Jehovah and Jesus Christ is claimed to BE Jehovah so therefore there are three different Gods we are talking about.If you think you believe in Jesus Christ I would point out that you are not believing Him if you think all three Gods are the same God, as He Himself clearly showed that is not the case {abe: as demonstrated by many quotations of Him in my Message 74.} HE is the God we worship, regarding Him as identical with Jehovah of the Old Testament, who is not the God worshiped by either the Jews or the Muslims.Again, anyone can worship whatever they please, but logically if you worship one of the Gods you are not worshiping the same God as the other two religions.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 07:04 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 07:04 PM

So you are saying that the quotes from Acts, Luke, John supersede what was said in the Old Testament?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I can accept that argument based on scriptures...but whats the point of making it?If you and I sat down to pray, would you be wary of praying with me---that perhaps I was praying to a wrong God? Would it not be better to let God work out the details and let the intents of our hearts prevail?

I've supported it amply many times over already. We don't need the Old Testament to prove it IF WE ARE CHRISTIANS, jar, we need only believe Jesus Christ. He made it very very clear as I showed in Message 74. Of course you don't have to believe Him, but in that case how is it you are a Christian?Nevertheless, in the Old Testament one can point to many things to show that a great number of the Jews throughout their history worshiped a false God, starting with the golden calf incident.I would never say ALL the Jews in the Old Testament did not worship the true God as always God had a "remnant" who were His true worshipers, but a MAJORITY in most times did not follow the true God. Just a few examples:The charge of idolatry against Israel is made over and over again in the OT. The prophets show beyond a doubt that the Jews had gone over to the worship of idols, the demon gods of the heathen nations around them, as they are always calling them back to true worship from such false worship, or they are giving them God's warnings of dire punishments to come for their infidelity-- which punishments do in fact come to pass and are recorded later in the scriptures.Elijah was fighting the priests of the demon god Baal, and in his day, as God told him, there were only 7000 true worshipers of the true God left in Israel.Ezekiel is shown the temple of God which has been violated by worship to the heathen god Tammuz.Solomon made altars to the false gods of his many wives, and the nation was punished for that and other transgressions of the kings. Many of the kings that followed in the Southern Kingdom did the same, and the kings of the Northern Kingdom were even worse.The Jewish leaders also persecuted, tortured and killed the true prophets of the true God, which is reported in many OT books, and Jesus accuses them of it concerning Zechariah and spoke of the Pharisees as those who "killed the prophets."When Jesus came things had not changed. The Jewish leaders continued to teach false religion, and Jesus was constantly correcting them and showing the true religion, and for this they tried to kill Him too.Only a remnant believed in Jesus. This amounted to hundreds of thousands, but it was still only a remnant. The rest of the nation went on with their false religion, down to the present day.

Lots of words but not a clue what you are saying. In Message 74 you included some quotes from Acts, John, Luke. Are you saying that the New Testament supesedes the Old Testament?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why am I doing it???Because that is what the thread is ABOUT.And what do you mean "based on the scriptures?" Huh? I'm basing it on ALL the scriptures, what the Qu'ran says, what the OT says, what the NT says. All together they show that these are three different religions we are talking about.

The OT cannot be understood without the NT. The NT doesn't supersede but it reveals the OT. But why does this matter? The mere fact that it says what it says shows that Jesus and Christianity as a whole disagrees with the Jewish understanding of their scriptures, which proves that we are talking about two different religions or concepts of God.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 07:32 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 07:33 PM

Thanks for the insult.Perhaps you need a Remedial Reading course, or a course in the Bible.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-26-2006 07:35 PM

If somebody had a concept of God that was false, would this mean, in your view, that when they prayed, they were not praying to God at all, that their prayers were directed toward an imaginary being, even if a part of their concept was correct?