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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

We Give The Universe Meaning, Like Nothing Else

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Author Topic:   We Give The Universe Meaning, Like Nothing Else
Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 4 of 36 (357709)
10-20-2006 11:38 AM 		Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
10-19-2006 5:33 PM

Are you sure that the universe is the kind of thing to which one can sensibly apply the concept of "meaning"?
Perhaps if you would explain what you want to convey by the term "meaning", your ideas would be clearer.
The is always the danger of discussing something equivalent to a "square triangle" without realizing it.
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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 9 of 36 (357906)
10-21-2006 7:22 AM

Hey folks! What do you intend to signify by the word "meaning" in this discussion? I'm finding these posts indecipherable. Perhaps others are too.
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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 13 of 36 (358155)
10-22-2006 3:41 PM 		Reply to: Message 11 by 42
10-21-2006 7:23 PM

Please explain what you are trying to convey by the word "meaning" here.
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 Message 20 by 42, posted 11-01-2006 2:12 AM Woodsy has replied
  
Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 21 of 36 (360348)
11-01-2006 7:42 AM 		Reply to: Message 20 by 42
11-01-2006 2:12 AM

Thanks for your helpful reply. I hope you will continue to try to clarify this. I am still puzzled by your ideas.
​
One often encounters the word meaning used in this context. I am not yet convinced that it conveys anything.
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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 23 of 36 (360468)
11-01-2006 1:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 22 by Archer Opteryx
11-01-2006 8:30 AM

Re: The Meaning of Meaning
We are so used to making one thing stand for another that the process is transparent to us most of the time we do it. We talk about speaking 'literally' and 'metaphorically' as if every word we exchange wasn't a metaphor at bottom.
​
It's inevitable that our species would ask a question like 'What is the meaning of me'? Our survival has depended on considering everything around us and seeking meaning. What does it mean when the sky looks that way? When that smell comes from an object? When an animal makes that sound? It follows that we would look at our own existence as a crucial feature of our environment and ask the same question. We say 'If this means something else, as other things do... what is that?'
​
I think I see at least three uses of "meaning" here: a) one idea or thing as a placeholder for another (eg a drawing standing in for an animal), b) the consequences following from an observation (eg what will happen if the sky has a certain appearance) and c) some kind of assumption that every thing is a placeholder for something else.
​
Is that what you wanted to convey? Are all of these legitimate?
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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 31 of 36 (362099)
11-06-2006 7:25 AM 		Reply to: Message 30 by Archer Opteryx
11-06-2006 4:31 AM

Re: The Meaning of Meaning
It does seem likely that the ancients would have thought in some such terms, as they lacked our scientific tools of thought. Is it appropriate that we continue thinking this way?
​
Is your placeholder idea what you wish to convey in the phrase "meaning of the universe"? If it is, why do you think that the universe is the kind of thing to which it is sensible to apply the placeholder idea, and what does the universe stand in for? Do you think that most people mean what you do when they talk about the "meaning of the universe"?
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Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3404 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006

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Message 34 of 36 (370623)
12-18-2006 11:06 AM 		Reply to: Message 32 by Archer Opteryx
11-07-2006 12:57 PM

Re: The Meaning of Meaning
Do you think that most people mean what you do when they talk about the "meaning of the universe"?
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It seems they do. I'm open to being shown otherwise.
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I'm surprised that you do think so. My impression is that meaning is usually used in the sense of "purpose", as in "For what purpose is the universe here?", or "The universe is here so that ...", or "The universe is here because Gods want to ...". It also seems to me that that is why some folks are upset if one says that the universe has no meaning. I doubt anyone would care if the universe was not a symbol for something or other.
​
Edited by Woodsy, : spelling, but which s to remove?
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