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Author Topic:   Is this Bible verse about believers and poison to be taken literally?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5938 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 52 of 142 (203146)
04-27-2005 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
04-27-2005 5:26 PM


Re: It has a specific context, doesn't mean "all"
Faith
My meaning is the meaning assigned by the historical Church, you know, millions of people.
WE are obviously done then since the historical church has,no doubt,it's own dictionary which is accesible only to beleivers.Oh,how silly we were to think that meaning would be availanble to all rather than only those with "special" understanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 5:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 04-27-2005 8:43 PM sidelined has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5938 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 65 of 142 (203266)
04-28-2005 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
04-28-2005 2:30 AM


Re: They were actually fulfilled in scripture
Faith
The whole report ought to get across what the Mark passage referred to: not ALL but SOME, according to the Holy Spirit, had SOME gifts. Their purpose was to establish the divine source of the Church in the pagan world. The "gift of miracles" should cover surviving poison. "Tongues" and "healings" are also specifically listed as gifts of the Holy Spirit.
But that is just the point.The passage in Mark is supposedly by Jesus after he is risen and spoke to the eleven disciples about their unbelief.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe;
Christ is saying to the disciples,without reference to ny passage in acts or otherwise,that if they believe and be baptised then there will be signs to prove such.
He then states the signs will be as follows
In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
If they believe and are baptised.Jesus said nothing further. He did not mention any other qualification.It is available to all who believe and are baptised.
We can also see the similar attribute further expressed here.Again it is a admonishment of the disciples unbelief.
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
This is it my dear friends.I do not give a rat's butt about your claim to "knowing" the real meaning of the scripture.Your own central figure in your spiritual exploration has stated that "nothing shall be impossible to you". It is available to all who believe and who are baptised.What the blue bloody blazes is preventing you from doing so? You are admonished by your god to believe and you still cannot. You can end world hunger with but asking for it and you will not.You can prevent the death of innocents with a word.
Nothing shall be impossible to you.
Please do us all a favour here and believe.Then every single person here will be a convert without fail I am sure.Either do not state that it is not what it means or please quit saying that you believe.

And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 04-28-2005 2:30 AM Faith has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5938 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 80 of 142 (203443)
04-28-2005 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by PecosGeorge
04-28-2005 10:36 AM


Re: Temptation
PecosGeorge
Thought I might share the following with you, before I boogie again. Drinking poison, throwing yourself off the temple, etc., comes under the same heading as tempting God
The phrase concerning poison is purported to have been spoken by Christ to his disciples yet you say to do so is to tempt god yet his son said it was okay. HMM, I must say here that I think you believing Christians{my apologies to Phatboy and jar} are twisting the facts to avoid the obvious truth that to follow the test of faith Christ himself declared to be within the power of those who have faith is suicide plain and simple.
The reason you do not attempt such has nothing to do with tempting god and everything to do with knowing that such a thing is not possible regardless of the level of faith.I think Christ would say you were a hypocrite.

And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-28-2005 10:36 AM PecosGeorge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 04-28-2005 7:05 PM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5938 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 90 of 142 (203531)
04-28-2005 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
04-28-2005 7:05 PM


Re: Temptation
Faith
Jesus said these signs shall FOLLOW them. It's a prediction of God's powers that will attend the preaching of the gospel in the world.
No.These signs shall foolow them that believe "In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
And how do you determine whether they have drunk any deadly thing?
In this other verse we get a different take on the capabilities of faith
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Now if you were to say unto a mountain remove hence to yonder do you seriously think that such would occur?Let me repeat the last sentence loudly.AND NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU.
Is there something that is vague and obtuse about the sentence?It says NOTHING...SHALL...BE...IMPOSSIBLE...FOR...YOU. Not Paul, not Christ, not anyone else,YOU.
Do something impossible.Do not give me the hackneyed excuse that you are tempting god.Satan is not involved.JESUS CHRIST said this is possible.Are you denying this?Please explain why he would lie and say such a thing if it was not a fact.Instead of giving me the run around do something impossible.
Let me help you.Pick any outstanding natural feature of the region you live in and irrevocably alter it so that it is utterly against the laws of physics in the same vein as Christ's example of a mountain.Live up to your forum name and remember it need only be the size of a mustard seed ok.
Oh and unless there is some misunderstanding on definition mustard seeds are really small.

And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 04-28-2005 7:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
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