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Author Topic:   God is good and evil
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 114 (88950)
02-26-2004 10:32 PM


If i say that god is Omniscient do u agree?
If i say that god is Omnipotent do u agree?
If i say that god is Omnipresent do u agree?
ok then where is the devil?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Catalyst, posted 02-26-2004 10:54 PM Catalyst has not replied
 Message 6 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-02-2004 1:12 AM Catalyst has replied
 Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-19-2004 6:10 PM Catalyst has replied
 Message 41 by 1.61803, posted 04-20-2004 12:54 AM Catalyst has not replied
 Message 80 by ElliPhant, posted 04-26-2004 8:20 AM Catalyst has replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 114 (88954)
02-26-2004 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Catalyst
02-26-2004 10:32 PM


some more questions for all you bible litralists:
How can something be good for God that is evil for us, when God is good? i.e. God has a reason for everything that means he had a reason for the nuclear bombs and the mass deaths of the Japanese etc etc. Was that not evil? Did God have a reason for it? If not then how can God be Omniscient? If he did not want it to happen why did he let it happen? If God is good for us, how can it be what is good for God is evil for us. That would make evil good for us?
Did God create evil? He certainly set the boundaries for right and wrong, He defined it. How can something exist if God did not create it? Didn’t God create everything? That’s why He is all powerful isn’t? If he didn’t create something that means he doesn’t control it how can He be all powerful then? Omnipotent? If God created freewill, and from freewill came evil, then God created us with the capacity for something that didn’t exist unless God created it. If He did not create everything then He is not all powerful (omnipotent), all knowing (omniscient) or everywhere (omnipresent).
If God is everywhere and is totally good then where is evil? If God is everywhere then evil must at least be made out of God otherwise he’s not everywhere! If God created evil then God is both evil and good just like human! And aren’t humans created in His image?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Catalyst, posted 02-26-2004 10:32 PM Catalyst has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 02-27-2004 3:44 PM Catalyst has replied
 Message 7 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 03-21-2004 5:32 PM Catalyst has not replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 114 (89658)
03-01-2004 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
02-27-2004 3:44 PM


Re: Rant
No, Mike, i am not confusing everything with everything! I never said God was totally evil, like u would have ppl believe, and i am speaking coherently, u failed to answer my first post y? was it because u couldnt? If God is those things, then a) Everything is part of God because God created everything - like a painter painting a picture, the picture is not part of him in any physical way, but he bore the idea, the inspiration, the concept of his, the painting is part of him in a deeper way, he created it; or if u want another analogy parent and child, the child is part of the parents 4 ever, as is the parent part of the child, they leave imprints on each other, change each other. If God is the ALL MIGHTY FATHER, then He has to be both of the human concepts "evil" and "good", as nothing can exist that did not originate from Him! Otherwise how can ne1 say with a straight face that God is ALL POWERFUL?! ALL: Everything, Everywhere, all knowing, MIGHTY: the grandest, biggest + smallest, highest, best etc, FATHER: in the sense of paternity, as the child originates from it parents, origin, begining/end.
Why is it so hard for u to c that "evil" and "good" are human concepts?! Do we not learn from "bad/evil/ occurances and even mistakes? Would not god use everything He possible could to teach, educate, evolve his ppl, his creations, to be the very best they could be, to teach them about themselves, about the world, others, and Himself through all events?
Minds of intelligence are only able to have preconceived notions of right and wrong because if u take the bible literally Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of knowledge. Off the topic 4 a moment; Adam had already been given the knowledge of good and evil before he ate from the tree! When God told him not to eat from the tree, Adam would have know that to go against Gods word would be "Evil"! Why did an all loving God who already gave Adam the knowledge kick him and Eve out of the garden ... if u r taking the bible literally?
U said that a mechanic may have evil thoughts but might not carry through with them, does not the bible say: Romans 13:9, Matthew 15:19 and Proverbs 30:32 that to think an evil thought is as bad as doing the evil thought?
By your logic a person who is born with/ or developes a mental condition by which they can no longer know what is right and wrong, although born with this "preconceived knowledge of morallity" is evil if they kill someone? How is it there fault if they do not have the cognitive power that ppl sopposedly have of morality when they are born? Or do u believe that they got ill because a demon inhabited there body/soul and caused the illness of mind ... against all medical science?
Ne way sorry for the tone of my writing, i didnt mean to sound contrasending.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 02-27-2004 3:44 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 03-01-2004 8:54 PM Catalyst has replied
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 04-19-2004 12:39 AM Catalyst has replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 114 (94814)
03-25-2004 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by mike the wiz
03-01-2004 8:54 PM


Re: apple and ball
Again I repeat myself I am not confusing everything with everywhere, I did not say that we are all sinful because we have evil thoughts, I was rebutting your argument, showing you how the things you say don’t make sense logically and according to the bible!
When you say that it was Satan who chose to have evil thoughts against god, God allowed it to continue and happen in the first place, therefore, logically it served some purpose to God. Otherwise why would He have allowed it to continue and keep happening?
Can you read? When I was talking about the Van Gogh and his paintings I said I wasn’t talking in a literal physical way but in a way that a part of his being was in that painting, he created it, it was part of him and he was part of it. If you have to think of it this way, that painting is still him, it resembles him and what he stood for in other peoples minds as well as his when he was alive. Do you understand or do I have to repeat myself again — not literally physical!!!
With your analogy of the apple and the ball, how can you confine God like that, in my opinion your analogy fall extremely short of God — who has no constraints! Why are you putting restraints on God and his power?
I am saying that God is everywhere — all time (relatively) / no time (absolutely), his love touches all, all is part of him.
How can God be so vengeful in the Old Testament and so loving in the New Testament? He condemns his own creations as being evil when he had the power to absolve them of this infliction? Why is god shown to be so condemning of gay people, of women and their place etc and condone things like the bad treatment of slaves?
Answer is god has to be both evil and good! We were created in his image, we are both evil and good, and therefore he has to be evil and good! Refer to my Adam and Eve reference; they had already been given the knowledge of good and evil so how could they be punished for something they already had?
If you are looking for a bible passage for the bad treatment of slaves try:
1Peter 2:18-20
Sorry for the late reply I have just started university so I have a lot of work to do

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 03-01-2004 8:54 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 04-17-2004 12:32 PM Catalyst has replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 114 (94815)
03-25-2004 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stephen ben Yeshua
03-02-2004 1:12 AM


You know its funny ur trying to threaten me with Gods vengence using bible passages, i advise you refer to:
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Good try though

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-02-2004 1:12 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 03-29-2004 11:47 PM Catalyst has not replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 114 (101554)
04-21-2004 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by mike the wiz
04-17-2004 12:32 PM


Re: apple and ball
did jesus not say "ye are gods"
that kinda throws ur arguement out the window

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 04-17-2004 12:32 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 114 (101558)
04-21-2004 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object
04-19-2004 6:10 PM


How could god be in two places at once? Well He is God! But i think you were talking about Jesus right? Gods human manifestation, well as a human its probably safe to say that he was never in two places at once except for maybe in peoples dreams ... but thats not a physical place is it.
Yes i believe the spirit is everywhere, god is everywhere part of everything / everyone

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-19-2004 6:10 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 114 (101561)
04-21-2004 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
04-19-2004 12:39 AM


Re: Rant
Where did freewill come from if God did not make it? How can something just exist alongside god wouldnt that make it the same as god or gods equal?
If you tell a kid not to go onto the street he might not know the danger of going onto the street but will have been given enough knowledge to know that going onto the road will angre you. It is the same thing with Adam and Eve, except going against Gods commands is not just wrond its "evil". If God had instructed humanity to avoid the entire dualistic realm of evil then he had to have educated them as to what was evil and what was good, ie following his commands abiding by his rules, or going against them and suffering the consequences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 04-19-2004 12:39 AM Phat has not replied

  
Catalyst
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 114 (104010)
04-30-2004 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by ElliPhant
04-26-2004 8:20 AM


U sure do lol
hey do u know nething bout Freemasonry or Co-Freemasonry?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ElliPhant, posted 04-26-2004 8:20 AM ElliPhant has not replied

  
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