The concept of faith

I believe Abiogenesis is a faith. Is it not?

First How do we know what the early conditions of the earth were truely like? Secondly, We have found fossils of living cells dated to be close to 3.8 billion years old. This is simply Amazing according to the "Nobel laureate, organic chemist, and leader in origin of life studies, Christain de Duve, in his excelant book, "Tour of a Living Cell." " If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one... The speed at which evolution started moving once it discovered the right track, so to speak, and apparently autocatalytic manner by which it accelerated are truely astonishing.... [Yet] chance and chance alone did it all. But this is not, as some would have it, the whole answer, for chance did not operate in a vaccum. It operated in a universe governed by orderly laws and made of matter endowed with special properties. These laws and properties are the constraints that shape evolutionary roulette and restrict numbers that can turn up.... Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written in to the fabric of the universe." "(1)
In my opinion, He suggests that there is a uniqueness about our universe. He also implies that life was actually programmed into our universe. And I ask the question: is he suggeting that there might be more that just chance that anything exists at all? After all, even chance needs something to work with.
(1) Gerald Schroeder, "The Hidden Face of God"
pg.51-52This message has been edited by Physrho, 08-31-2005 02:22 PM

Well, it would require some faith. But the fact is that, there really is no way to know what the earth was really like before life. We can hypothesize all we want. Well If you agree that all things are made of atoms, then I guesss I could say that Christain is telling us that molecular combinations of atoms form acids . So of course you are saying that molecules and chance are responsible for life. What de Duve was trying to say is that its miracules that the universe is so tuned for life. And chance alone cannot account for it. When I say tuned the question of 'by who?' comes into mind. Now another problem comes into the picture that has to be accounted for before we can even consider life. ATP-adenosine triphosphate, is designed to power all cells. All life uses ATP as it's power source. Nature, it seems, has developed a complex way of keeping our bodies running. Yet it actually takes ATP to make ATP. To power the combustion of food into ATP it actually takes ATP to power it. It's like the Chicken and the Egg. So when the first living molecule popped into existance, it would have had a fully complete ATP system to maintain life. Yet this information among other comlexities needed for life must have been in place before life.This message has been edited by Physrho, 08-31-2005 03:11 PM

You accuse me of assumtions when the fact is today, all forms of life use ATP even the simplest to the most complex. Yet You assume that ATP wasn't need to form life. And if Abiogenesis still occurs in the world Then where is it? You also assume that life spontaniously devloped literally out of nothing. It's true that chemists can create acids, but can they cause these acids to organize into DNA and into complex working machines that fully function and produce life? You assume just as much if not more in your faith as I do mine.