Why does Jesus misquote the Old Testament so often?

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Is that a reason to "toss the baby out with the bathwater?" I think not.

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It is, however, a reason to toss out a direct, literal interpretation.If you don't have the specific wording, you can't base your interpretation on the specific wording.I mean come on, that's just common sense.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

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But all these predictions of phrophecy have came to pass as Keith said, if we can read and understand then why is it such a problem?

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The bible also says that all those prophecies will happen within a single generation. Do you see the trouble with language that sets in here?For the love o' crimney, I've seen people argue on this board that Jesus didn't mean "this generation" but actually meant "this generation." (Warning to the humorless: that was exaggeration) Language is not as simple as 1 + 1 = 2, and trying to say "look what it says. The words. Right there." can only work against the Bible's accuracy.How many times has "death vs. spiritual death" come up around here? Right now Zealot is arguing with Revenge of Reason that Paul doesn't say that Jesus was the first to rise from the grave, when the freakin' words say that Jesus is the first to rise from the grave.So maybe the "bible haters" have the right idea, when we say that maybe it shouldn't be read for literal accuracy?

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Because bible haters want to show the words to be wrong.

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Bit of a blanket statement, isn't it? Personally, I don't give a crap if people think it's right or wrong, as long as they're not trying to affect government policy on the basis of thinking it's right.

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But be honest Dan - no words wwould make any sense whatsoever if it was as uninterpretable as the bible haters make out.

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Where are you getting that from? The only thing we "bible haters" say is that you can't get a literal interpretation from a flawed translation.

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Base on this prophesy I have no doubt that you would try to pick apart the bible. The Bible tells us this will happen.

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Look. You are actually fulfilling prophecy even as we speak. You are the proof you are looking for to support the accuracy of the Bible.

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Ahem... I proclaim that moon men are beaming signals into your brain that command you to believe in the Bible. These signals will also cause you to argue against the idea that moon men even exist. So if you say I'm wrong... well, it just proves that the moon men are doing their job well, doesn't it?Ridiculous logic? You bet.

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The Bible also correctly predicts what will become of all your attempts and what you consider wisdom.

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Or it just says that Christianity isn't for wise people. "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise" certainly sounds like "I will make otherwise smart people into dullards."Look at that, a literal reading can present two meanings.

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If you read on in 2 peter chapter 3 you will see the Bible’s response to your question about this Generation.

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Just read it. Care to provide a specific line? I'm not seeing it.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

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What part is hard?

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The part where he addresses the fact that Jesus said the prophecies would happen within a single generation, and the prophecies didn't happen before that generation died. Where does he do that?

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2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

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So what? He said "this generation". It doesn't matter if a day is a thousand years or vice versa. He said that generation wouldn't pass until the prophecies were filled. They've passed, and the prophecies weren't fulfilled before it happened.

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2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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And yet it would certainly seem that he was slack in his promise, if we continue to read "this generation" literally, wouldn't it?Gee, maybe a literal interpretation isn't the way to go if you want the Bible to make any sense...

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You see how the God of the Universe loves you.

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Well, that's nice of him. What does it have to do with what I'm talking about, though?[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

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Wasn't your argument earlier that the Bible couldn't be taken literally?

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Yes. Still is.

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So maybe "this generation" is meant to be a metaphor for our time.

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There ya go! Now we're getting somewhere! The meaning of the Bible is found in metaphor, like any story.

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What it has to do with is not what you are talking about, but with you!! Even though you have spent countless hours arguing against God, he still loves you and maybe your the one person he is waiting for before the temple gets built and all these things come to pass. I was sure glad he waited on me.

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Well, again, that's very nice of him.

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care to refute the prophecies about Israel and taking the number of the beast on your hand or forehead?

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Out of curiosity, how many people have actually taken the number of the beast on their hand or forehead? You can't really refute a prophecy that hasn't happened yet.

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If you think it's so outdated and of no consequence then why are you wasting your time trying to refute it? If I were as convinced as you seem to be I would be spending my time doing something else.

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Given the number of people who make laws based on the Bible that affect believer and non-believer alike, that should be obvious.

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Still avoids the prophecies of Israel!!

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What are you talking about? I addressed it in a previous post. Jesus said it would happen within a single generation. If it happens 2000 years later, that's not a very accurate prophecy, now is it?

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I think even the Bible itself says that many of the stories are metephores. Jesus rarely talked literally to crowds. He would later explain what he said to his disciples. But it's the underlying principles that are literal in inerrant.

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What does that even mean? Once you glean the metaphor, that's what's inerrant?Okay. So I draw a different metaphor from it than you do. Which one is right?

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And as I said the final pieces of the play are all coming into place.

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The play ended when that generation passed on. Take a bow.Unless it's metaphor, in which case what difference does it make if it's being fulfilled? It wasn't a literal prophecy.

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In addition to Isreal, the world is moving toward a one world government.

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Have you payed any attention to recent world events? Various world governments are more divided than they have been in decades.

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Daniel talks about the kings of the earth giving their power to the antichrist. Sounds like the UN.

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I wasn't aware of the UN resolution in which Kofi Annan ceded the position of secretary-general to the antichrist. Could you provide a link, maybe?

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The technology is getting so good that in Illinois you can use an I pass and drive through the toll roads without slowing down.

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Yeah. By putting a chip in your car.The prophecy hasn't actually come true, so there's no need to refute it. Something being possible isn't the same as it actually happening.

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You still seem to negate the accuracy of what was predicted based on the one phrase "this Generation"

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If you set a timetable for the prophecy, you have to stay within the timetable for the prophecy to be accurate.If someone at the opening of the world trade center had said "within five years, both of these building will be destroyed by terrorists", he would have been wrong. It doesn't matter that decades later the buildings were destroyed by terrorists; the guy said it would happen within five years.

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What some scholars think is that when Jesus said not everyone would fall away before you see these things come to pass, is that he was talking about the Disciple John.

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When John wrote the book of Revelations he actually witnessed what happened at the end. So in effect someone in that generation did see these things come to pass.

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But he didn't say "someone in this generation", he said "this generation".If this is how we're reading things, how do you know he meant the Jewish people, and not one Jewish guy? I don't know of any one Jewish guy who was removed from his land, scattered across the world, trampled by the gentiles, and finally returned to his land only to have the whole world turn against him, personally.Sound silly? Sure. But no sillier than reading "this generation" as "one guy from this generation".

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And except for that one word, which could have been a metaphore

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In which case, the whole thing could have been a metaphor. So what does literal occurence matter?

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If I understand you right you are saying that since that one word is incorrect that what the bible correctly says about Israel with increadible detail

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Something happening 2000 years off the mark is a pretty big detail to get wrong, wouldn't you say?

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since you didn't predict anything and the Bible did, I'm going to go with the Bible.

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Excuse me, that's not what I asked you. I said that I draw a different metaphor from the bible than you do, so who's right? You or me, not me or the Bible.

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I'll save that for when I stand before the Lord. By the way the Bible says you will to.

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Yeah, the Bible also says that bats are a type of bird.

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Got to go for today. Pick it back up tomorrow.

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Later.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

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I-Pass: Mark Of The Beast

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Marry me. We'll get the ceremony out of the way now, and love will come in time.

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Mike:
Ofcourse Dan is forgetting what Christ said about not returning untill they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

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You're right, I did forget that. Well, there's one more thing that didn't happen before that generation passed.

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Rei:
I already belong to an organization whose sole intent is, for the sake of the world, to prevent you from ever fathering children.

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I knew such an orginization existed. Now I'm one step closer to the conspiracy...

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Or, the time has simply not come yet

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I don't see how that's possible. That generation is long gone. The deadline was up a very long time ago.Even on the offchance it still happens, it won't be as prophecized.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

message 67.He gave a time frame, Mike. Saying "but this didn't happen before the deadline" doesn't change that.

Are you even reading the responses to what you write?It doesn't matter what he predicted, because he predicted it would all happen within a single generation.It didn't happen. Prophecy failed. The fact that he said people wouldn't believe him doesn't mean he can't be wrong.And predicting that people won't believe you would make everyone who's ever lived a prophet.[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-20-2003]

Mike, I'm not repeating the whole thread. Go back and read.